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Monday, October 29, 2018

VAPs and Fellowships: Open Thread, 2018-2019

On this thread, comments can be shared regarding news of appointments to VAPs or similar fellowships (for example, the Climenko and Bigelow).  Here is last year's thread.

You may also add information to the spreadsheet.

Posted by Sarah Lawsky on October 29, 2018 at 09:00 AM in Getting a Job on the Law Teaching Market | Permalink


I think at this point, it's fairly safe to say that if you have not had an interview, then you are out of the running except at those places where deadlines are Jan. 1 or later.

Posted by: anon | Dec 18, 2018 11:22:32 AM

Ding AIL

Posted by: anon | Dec 18, 2018 11:17:29 AM

Honestly, I was just excited to see something in my inbox :D
Good luck everyone as this process continues!!

Posted by: Sparky | Dec 18, 2018 11:16:27 AM

And yet another ding from Columbia AIL. I hadn’t heard anything until today’s email

Posted by: Anonnnn | Dec 18, 2018 11:13:14 AM

Hi Team - one more rejection from Columbia's AIL Program :)

Posted by: Sparky | Dec 18, 2018 11:09:58 AM

So far then we have at least one offer from NYU.

Interviews with Penn, Chicago, and Duke.

Anything else?

Posted by: Anon | Dec 14, 2018 12:16:21 PM

Heard from bigelow and duke

Posted by: anon | Dec 12, 2018 5:07:46 PM

I can only share that I haven't heard anything from Penn yet...

Posted by: anonymous | Dec 12, 2018 1:13:21 PM

Other than NYU and Penn all the other programs seem to be quite so far?

Posted by: anon | Dec 12, 2018 10:50:33 AM

I suspect people do not post for fear of outing themselves, primarily.

Posted by: anon | Dec 11, 2018 9:36:49 PM

I suspect it's too early for NYU (and possibly others) to know how many fellows they can hire. There may be current fellows who'll leave if they land a TT position but stay another year if they don't.

Posted by: Ann On | Dec 11, 2018 9:23:40 PM

FWIW, I haven’t heard from Harvard or Columbia. Interviewed with NYU but haven’t heard back. How many will NYU hire? When should I start losing hope?

Posted by: Anonwiththewind | Dec 11, 2018 3:51:26 PM

FWIW Columbia sent me a rejection email on Dec 22 last year. Sharswood never sent me anything. Bigelow rejected me in Feb last year.

I will say, this thread is quite silent compared to last year. Is there any particular reason for that? I imagine it's pretty tough to be a competitive candidate on the TT Market or VAP Market and not know about these threads.

Posted by: anon | Dec 11, 2018 2:31:11 PM

anon - I have heard of only one and am not sure of the timing, though it must have been at least a week ago.

Posted by: Annonn | Dec 11, 2018 10:57:33 AM


When did NYU start making offers? How many?

Posted by: anon | Dec 11, 2018 10:44:40 AM

NYU has started making offers. Has anyone heard from Harvard, Columbia?

Posted by: Annonn | Dec 11, 2018 10:37:27 AM

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Posted by: anonymous | Dec 7, 2018 4:05:43 PM

Has anyone heard back after the initial screener for an on site interview?

Posted by: anonL | Dec 7, 2018 3:28:36 PM

I think comments were down for a bit — any news?

Posted by: Anonnnnn | Dec 7, 2018 12:44:01 PM

Thank you, TopVAP

Posted by: anon | Dec 1, 2018 3:34:51 PM

anon --

Different programs follow different timelines and procedures, and I'd refer you to my earlier post where I detailed my experience last year for a better sense of how this all can shake out from a timing perspective. There's at least one well-regarded program that makes offers without first interviewing, for example.

For my program, assuming that you applied in early October AND your application went complete around then (e.g., we received all of your LORs and accompanying materials), if you haven't heard anything from us, it's probably a negative indicator. It is, however, possible that you are in some version of "hold" -- we do have several candidates who are. And I think it's probable that we will ultimately call at least one such candidate.

Posted by: TopVAP | Dec 1, 2018 3:23:54 PM

TopVAP, thanks for that information. Can you comment on how interviewing proceeds where there is a rolling policy? For example, if you apply in early october and haven’t received a call by now, is that a roughly good indicator that you won’t receive one? Or is it possible you are on “hold” until more applications/top applicants get interviewed/receive offers? For many on the VAP market information is important to planning, and their different situations are much different than those applying to non-academic jobs. It would be helpful for programs to be more transparent about hiring practice, salary info, etc

Posted by: anon | Dec 1, 2018 3:07:23 PM

A couple of tips from someone who is currently in the process of reviewing applications for one of the often-mentioned positions here:

* It's not too late to apply. I know that my program has, in years past, made offers to candidates who hadn't applied yet at this point. We are in fairly advanced stages of interviewing, but are also still reviewing new applications. Most programs make offers in two rounds, because the number of spots available in these programs is typically contingent on how people do on the job market, which won't resolve for several additional months.

* Most of these programs make offers on a rolling basis. But also most of these programs will try to interview a couple of candidates before making an offer. So if you've interviewed and haven't heard anything, don't despair! Also, if you haven't been contacted for an interview yet (especially if you applied late), don't despair!

* I know when we've interviewed a candidate and I know when I vote with respect to an interview or an offer. I don't, however, typically know when we actually contact candidates. Sometimes, I think, it's the day after my vote and sometimes it seems to be a week or more later. I suspect that this is standard. As a consequence, the possibility of outing yourself by posting where you are in the process for a specific school is exceedingly low.

* In any event, we don't care if you post about having an interview or an offer on this board. I also suspect that this view is shared widely.

Posted by: TopVAP | Dec 1, 2018 2:12:40 PM

So word from NYU? What about Harvard interviews?

Posted by: Anon | Nov 30, 2018 8:08:10 PM

Has anybody gotten a call from Upenn yet?

Posted by: anonymous | Nov 30, 2018 6:31:53 PM

Yes, screener means an initial phone interview.

Posted by: anonym | Nov 29, 2018 7:12:53 PM

When people talk about a "screener," are they just talking about an initial phone interview? And does an invitation for a screener = initial contact to schedule time for phone interview?

Posted by: AnotherNewbie | Nov 29, 2018 1:35:38 PM

Newbie: Yes. I don't know if they have invited everyone they plan to interview, but some interviews have already been conducted and I think they plan to be finished with screeners by end of next week.

Posted by: anonym | Nov 29, 2018 12:18:33 PM

Newbie, that's the sense I got, too. Though I may well be wrong.

Posted by: Anooon | Nov 29, 2018 11:49:34 AM

I am under impression that NYU will be issuing decisions before the new year - at least based on what was said to me during interviews. But who knows!

Re Penn - have people already been invited for those screening interviews?

Posted by: Newbie | Nov 29, 2018 11:18:02 AM

Next year? Well that's a depressing thought.

Posted by: Anononon | Nov 28, 2018 6:16:58 PM

Penn Sharswood is doing screeners this week and next

Posted by: anonym | Nov 28, 2018 4:24:40 PM

I haven’t heard anything from NYU, but I only interviewed a few weeks ago. I’d be surprised to hear anything before the new year

Posted by: Anon and on | Nov 28, 2018 3:16:53 PM

Has anyone heard from NYU post-interview?

Posted by: Anononon | Nov 27, 2018 6:46:26 PM

Chicago is in the midst of screeners.

Posted by: anon? | Nov 27, 2018 6:38:20 PM

It's been a couple of weeks (almost). Any news from NYU, Columbia, Chicago, etc.?

Posted by: AnonAnon | Nov 27, 2018 1:07:41 PM

Does that mean it's not to late to submit applications? I haven't applied to Bigelow and Climenko yet and thought I'd be too late, because submissions have been open for months now, but now I'm having second thoughts.

Posted by: AnonQ | Nov 19, 2018 1:31:19 PM

I interviewed in January and Feb for some of these fellowships in years past. Some did not call until then.

Posted by: anon | Nov 19, 2018 11:13:28 AM

My guesss is somewhere in the 50-70 range. This seems to be typical.

Posted by: Anon | Nov 19, 2018 10:41:47 AM

Does anyone know the current or recent salaries for Climenko, Bigelow, and Sharswood?

Posted by: Anon | Nov 19, 2018 10:22:18 AM

Anyone has heard anything from Penn's Sharswood? I get a sense that they're also doing things later this year?

Posted by: anonL | Nov 16, 2018 1:51:39 PM

Right - no news after NYU interview (sorry that wasn’t more clear)

Posted by: Anonwiththewind | Nov 16, 2018 11:55:52 AM

Same also, assuming what’s meant is no further news yet after NYU interview.

Posted by: Anon92 | Nov 16, 2018 11:48:04 AM

Same as Anonwiththewind

Posted by: Anon | Nov 16, 2018 10:07:05 AM

Anonwiththewind, you mean you have heard re interview or re offer?

Posted by: anon | Nov 16, 2018 9:17:13 AM

FWIW, I’ve heard from NYU, but not from Climenko or Columbia. Not sure If anyone else has...

Posted by: Anonwiththewind | Nov 16, 2018 9:05:06 AM

has anyone heard form HLS (Climenko), Columbia (AIL), or Chicago (Bigelow)?

Posted by: anon | Nov 13, 2018 10:54:11 AM

can anyone provide any more insight into how far along committees are in the VAP process? I.e. any more phone calls coming, or are we past that?

Posted by: anon | Nov 10, 2018 11:25:43 AM

Is it typical for programs to make decisions on a rolling basis or should we expect there to be no decisions until they've seen all candidates (likely sometime in the new year)?

Posted by: Anon92 | Nov 9, 2018 10:09:39 AM

someone else posted that the other programs have begun scheduling interviews. Looking back at previous years, it seems that most interviews take place mid-Oct - early Dec. I would guess if you applied earlier and have not been called, then most likely you won't get a call. But that is conjecture.

Posted by: anon | Nov 6, 2018 3:27:22 PM

The thread reflects that NYU has begun scheduling interviews... has anyone heard about interviews from any of the other fellowships yet?

Posted by: anon | Nov 6, 2018 2:31:24 PM

Yes, that makes sense. Thanks for the reply

Posted by: Anon | Nov 1, 2018 2:28:02 PM

Feb is not late. Most vaps don't hire until then. Fellowships may be hiring now but not VAP. They often do not know hiring needs till spring anyway once laterals announce news and such.

Posted by: anon | Nov 1, 2018 1:07:13 PM

Any idea why BU’s VAP hires so late? Website says February, which seems way out of time with the others

Posted by: Anon | Nov 1, 2018 11:36:29 AM

Wake Forest University School of Law is seeking Visiting Assistant Professor ("VAP") applicants interested in teaching Criminal Law, Torts, Evidence, and Copyright.


Posted by: anonymous | Oct 31, 2018 6:58:19 PM

That is true about NYC. In fact their placement rate is probably better than Columbia. I never get this if this is deliberate or not but they do tend to hire a lot of people with significant practice experience who because of their personal preferences and family are somewhat limited geographically. I know of 4 recent fellows who had this situation and they ended up going back to law. They also have a bunch who continue legal writing teaching. If one is limited geographically it makes it extremely hard to get a job and I often do not think people realize how hard the market is before doing these fellows and then finding out later that it is like impossible to find a job in NYC of D.C.

By time to write, I meant all those things the below stated. It is not an insignificant benefit but is it worth moving to a new place and giving up thousands of salary? Depends on if you already have time to write and most importantly have law school connections. One can always go to conferences if you are willing to pay and sometimes costs is nothing if live in same city. In terms of actual tangible results the most important is the writing. All the other things the person below mentions are attainable without a fellowship if you have money and are pushy. Most law schools often have practice talks and such so it is not exclusive to fellows.

Posted by: Anon | Oct 31, 2018 3:37:30 PM

What about the non-LRW and non-teaching fellowships (like Academic Fellows at Columbia). Are those still out there?

Posted by: anony | Oct 31, 2018 3:18:09 PM

I think the short answer to the dilemma is: if you get an offer from a school where you'd be happy, take it.

But since you're only in the callback stage, why not also apply for fellowships as a backup plan? A fellowship may not help you land at a school that is higher-ranked than the ones you're interviewing with now but it will give you time to write and an opportunity to teach and participate in the academic life of an excellent school. Plus if you're getting callbacks now, so long as you keep publishing the risks are lower for you than for many other fellowship applicants.

Posted by: newishprof | Oct 31, 2018 2:56:27 PM

As someone who did one of the non-Bigelow "usual suspects" fellowships and is in a TT position, 2 thoughts. These are not specifically directed at AnonyMouse's question re: the NYU fellowship (the point about moving to NYC to live on a fellow salary for that particular fellowship is particularly worth considering).

(1) it's absolutely true that Bigelow placement rates are in a league by themselves, that this impacts the kind of candidates they're able to draw, and that this in turn impacts their placement rates. Prestige, like money, snowballs.

(2) it's not true that the other fellowships only give you time to write.

There's wide variation among the fellowship programs at different schools, within the fellowship programs at any given school, and even within a single fellowship program dependent on both you and the faculty you click with.

I happened to benefit in a lot of ways that did not just amount to time to write (although there was a lot of that, too): money and opportunities to attend conferences in order to build up a name in my subfield; feedback on article projects (prioritizing, editing, placement, even "titling") and AALS materials (which was every bit as useful as the article help itself); chances to see job talks and lectures in action before I constructed my own; acculturation (which I think is often derided--and perhaps rightly so, but that doesn't make it any less valuable).

Posted by: Anon | Oct 31, 2018 2:11:34 PM

My understanding is that NYU doesn't place worse than some of the others (excepting Bigelow, Climenko) when you look at just those fellows who actually go on the market. A lot of NYU hires come with practice experience and some go back to practice and never try to find a tenure track post.

Posted by: Anon83 | Oct 31, 2018 1:37:02 PM

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