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Monday, October 29, 2018

VAPs and Fellowships: Open Thread, 2018-2019

On this thread, comments can be shared regarding news of appointments to VAPs or similar fellowships (for example, the Climenko and Bigelow).  Here is last year's thread.

You may also add information to the spreadsheet.

Posted by Sarah Lawsky on October 29, 2018 at 09:00 AM in Getting a Job on the Law Teaching Market | Permalink


anon @ 1/16 -- yes. I know for a fact last year that there were multiple programs that interviewed in December yet made offers to candidates who they interviewed in the new year. I also know for a fact that this exact scenario could plausibly happen again this year.

Posted by: TopVAP | Jan 16, 2019 6:11:32 PM

I know everyone on here is obsessing over "actual, insider" knowledge of the process, but has anyone actually ever received an offer for one of these VAPs/Fellowships when he/she wasn't interviewed within a couple of weeks of all the other interviews? I just find it hard to believe that if we know a programs, e.g. Sharswood, Bigelow, Duke, conducted several interviews in the beginning of December, they would be reaching out to NEW candidates in late January or later. But perhaps someone can provide a counterexample to my intuition.

Posted by: anon | Jan 16, 2019 3:41:35 PM

I'll second what anon | Jan 15, 2019 10:47:14 AM said, with a slight adjustment: I think it's true that fellowship/VAP programs consider an applicant's potential marketability on the TT market and part of that is being able to articulate a 1L teaching hook. I'm less sure that you need to have a *strong* 1L curriculum contribution -- a plausible 1L course or two plus a more solid set of "mainstream" upper level electives will probably do the trick at this stage, and perhaps on the TT market as well. For example, someone whose real teaching and research interests are in reproductive rights might say they're willing and able to teach Con Law (knowing that in most cases they will not be asked to given how coveted Con Law is), and have an elective suite of Family Law, Gender and the Law, a seminar on Reproductive Rights, etc.

Posted by: Former Fellow | Jan 15, 2019 11:15:27 AM

Italo, my work is in PIL and must admit I share your feelings. I haven't tried the market yet but I think our field is very disadvantaged given the very small number of spots available and the level of law schools you can find these at. For the VAPs/Fellowships market, I am far from an authority but the sense I get is that most of the schools want candidates that fit one of the main 1L curriculum market fields which means that they will be highly marketable upon completion of the fellowship. I too have the same number of publications in top US law journals and only made it to the shortlist of two fellowships so far.

Posted by: anon | Jan 15, 2019 10:47:14 AM

i am not specializing in public international law. i don't know of anyone else looking for a fellowship who is. there are more international arbitration or business candidates i think.

Posted by: fellowtraveler | Jan 15, 2019 10:43:38 AM

@fellowtraveler I applied to a couple entry-level tenure-track positions, including one at Berkeley Law, but I didn't really have any expectations to land an offer. Conversely, I (mistakenly) thought I stood a chance with 1- or 2-year fellowship/VAP positions, but only made the shortlist in two occasions

Posted by: Italo | Jan 14, 2019 9:42:49 PM

@italo are you talking about the entry level job market or the fellowship market?

Posted by: fellowtraveler | Jan 14, 2019 8:03:54 PM

apologies in advance for this message. Is anyone of you specializing in public international law? I'm well aware that the law school market is tough with those with my expertise, but I was just wondering how many 'competitors' I have. I've four published articles with top student-reviewed IL journals, but the job market has been pretty disappointing so far

Posted by: Italo | Jan 14, 2019 4:21:48 PM

They list 14 temporary lawyering faculty on the website. If everyone stays for three years, one would expect them to have 4 or 5 spots to fill. More if there are fellows who don't stay on a second or third year.

Posted by: Anon | Jan 14, 2019 2:59:58 PM

It looks like NYU has made three offers. Maybe they will make more, but how many spots could they possibly be filling?

Posted by: Anon | Jan 14, 2019 12:31:26 PM

@anon "the more time elapses, the less likely it seems offers will come" Yes, that's true as a general point, but it does not constitute specific information about any particular admissions process. I have it on good word that for some top VAPS the process is very stretched out and that commenters on this board often have little insight into what's going on.

I genuinely don't mean to be rude, as I'm sure everyone is trying to be helpful. But it's important to be clear about what is and is not speculative guesswork.

Posted by: anon interviewee | Jan 12, 2019 3:25:27 PM

Any idea what's going on with the Climenko?

Posted by: anon interviewee | Jan 12, 2019 2:40:29 PM

Thanks, sparky. But we are getting close to feb and the more time elapses, the less likely it seems offers will come

Posted by: Anon | Jan 12, 2019 1:08:30 PM

Thanks, sparky. But we are getting close to feb and the more time elapses, the less likely it seems offers will come

Posted by: Anon | Jan 12, 2019 1:08:29 PM

@anon - you're welcome! And, for what it's worth, I found out my fate after a bunch of comments concluding that no more information would come forward. Don't lose hope ;)

Posted by: Sparky | Jan 11, 2019 9:34:28 PM

Thank you to the person who updated the spreadsheet re: NYU

Posted by: Anon | Jan 11, 2019 8:47:38 AM

@anon thanks. just to be clear, though, is this your assumption or is there something that points to this being the case for those of us who have not been contacted?

Posted by: anon interviewee | Jan 8, 2019 4:58:19 PM

anon interviewee: AFAIK, you're on their second tier list of people. Early rejections are bottom of the applicant pool. Interviews are top. Silent are middle applications, held in reserve in case stuff happens with top candidates.

Posted by: anon | Jan 8, 2019 2:46:50 PM

There is an interview listed on the spreadsheet for Columbia AIL, and a fair amount of folks have received rejections. Any idea what's going on for those of us who have neither been rejected nor received interview requests? I can't imagine why they would send rejections to only some of the applicants, and in stages, but who knows.

Posted by: anon interviewee | Jan 8, 2019 2:23:41 PM

I interviewed at NYU. I have heard nothing. I assume that ship has sailed.

Posted by: anonnnn | Jan 8, 2019 2:13:43 PM

Waiting sure is fun.... no news on Climenko or NYU?

Posted by: Anonn | Jan 8, 2019 12:27:56 PM

Can the people who received offers please let everyone know if they accepted them?

Posted by: Anon | Jan 4, 2019 2:14:13 PM

Having gone through the Yale PhD program, I'd be happy to chat with anyone about it. It is akin to the Climenko/Bigelow fellowships, though like everything, there are pros/cons both ways.

I don't check this board often, though, so email me at rebecca dot crootof at yale dot edu.

Posted by: Rebecca Crootof | Dec 30, 2018 1:19:09 AM

Because the PhD is granted through Yale’s graduate school of arts and sciences, it would not surprise me if the LSAT is related to that admissions process, not imposed by the Yale Law faculty.

Posted by: Nanon | Dec 29, 2018 9:12:07 AM

Several people have told me that compared to the (other) VAP/fellowship programs, Yale treats people in the program as students rather than early-career academics. The LSAT requirement is consistent with that.

Posted by: Anon2 | Dec 29, 2018 12:33:44 AM

I looked at the Yale law PhD website just now. It says they require LSAT scores. Is this a joke?

Posted by: Anon | Dec 28, 2018 7:41:04 PM

Is there a thread that tracks Yale Law PhD admissions? I know it isn’t a VAP/Fellowship but I imagine that there is overlap with this population. I’m curious if anyone has heard back...or had a sense of when we might hear back...

Posted by: Curious | Dec 28, 2018 3:25:02 PM

@anon it’s either that or crying into my peppermint hot cocoa ;)

Posted by: SnaZzy | Dec 28, 2018 11:38:26 AM

snazzy, what an optimist!

Posted by: anon | Dec 28, 2018 10:50:03 AM

But there is still hope until the rejection email arrives :)
The spreadsheet doesn’t yet indicate that the offers were accepted.

Posted by: Snazzy | Dec 28, 2018 10:22:32 AM

Idk but I would think they make all their offers at once. I bet they made more than 2

Posted by: Anon | Dec 27, 2018 4:47:11 PM

How many spots does NYU have to fill? Would they even know at this point?

Posted by: Anonnn | Dec 27, 2018 2:13:11 PM

If they have made 2 offers, my guess is that they have made all their offers, but I could be wrong

Posted by: Anon | Dec 27, 2018 12:19:08 PM

I see someone posted on the spreadsheet that NYU has made another offer (2 total)

Posted by: Anonnn | Dec 27, 2018 11:46:45 AM

Can I ask who deleted the 4 AIL offers and why? Was it actually a mistake?

Posted by: anon? | Dec 19, 2018 8:01:59 PM

Didn't realize the spreadsheet has content when you click on the link! I don't think it's been reported in the thread, but the spreadsheet indicates that Columbia has made 4 offers.

Posted by: anon | Dec 19, 2018 4:26:56 PM

The Information Society Project at Yale Law School is currently accepting applications for four positions: Executive Director, ISP Resident Fellow, Wikimedia/YLS Fellow, and Communications Fellow. I've added them to the spreadsheet, along with a link to the calls (which will also note when the positions are closed): https://law.yale.edu/isp/join-us

Posted by: Rebecca Crootof | Dec 19, 2018 1:29:18 PM

Right. Even the previous poster did not disclose where the received this interview. How can we blame people when there is no information. Like everything else in law hiring, the process is hard to make sense of

Posted by: Anon | Dec 19, 2018 10:51:02 AM

I think the problem is that these processes are so opaque and unclear we resort to the blind leading the blind. I know that I place probably undue importance on what is posted here due to a lack of anything else to rely on

Posted by: Anonnn | Dec 19, 2018 10:13:09 AM

I completely agree with anon interviewee. I follow this tread as well as the one on law school hiring. There, one person said: "If you haven't received any AALS screening interviews yet, you shouldn't go to DC." This was quite depressing for me, as at that moment I only had one interview. 5 days later, I had 7 interviews in total. So don't believe everything you see written here.

Posted by: AnonSad | Dec 18, 2018 4:01:51 PM

I would appreciate it if commenters would refrain from posting things like, "If you haven't heard from x you're not getting an interview," unless you can provide some kind of substantiating details.

I received an interview from a big name fellowship program after reading one comment earlier. I've also spoken with an individual currently in a big name fellowship program who told me that this comment thread is not always well-informed with regard to the state of play at different programs.

There is no need to prop up false hopes, of course; but neither is there reason to pass off pure conjecture as fact.

Posted by: anon interviewee | Dec 18, 2018 3:22:49 PM

Regarding the comment that if you haven't had an interview by now you're probably out of the running, has anyone heard from Climenko yet?

Posted by: anon? | Dec 18, 2018 1:24:51 PM

Has Duke given out interviews?

Posted by: anonL | Dec 18, 2018 11:48:59 AM

Does anyone have information about whether NYU has made more than one offer?

Posted by: Anon | Dec 18, 2018 11:23:49 AM

I think at this point, it's fairly safe to say that if you have not had an interview, then you are out of the running except at those places where deadlines are Jan. 1 or later.

Posted by: anon | Dec 18, 2018 11:22:32 AM

Ding AIL

Posted by: anon | Dec 18, 2018 11:17:29 AM

Honestly, I was just excited to see something in my inbox :D
Good luck everyone as this process continues!!

Posted by: Sparky | Dec 18, 2018 11:16:27 AM

And yet another ding from Columbia AIL. I hadn’t heard anything until today’s email

Posted by: Anonnnn | Dec 18, 2018 11:13:14 AM

Hi Team - one more rejection from Columbia's AIL Program :)

Posted by: Sparky | Dec 18, 2018 11:09:58 AM

So far then we have at least one offer from NYU.

Interviews with Penn, Chicago, and Duke.

Anything else?

Posted by: Anon | Dec 14, 2018 12:16:21 PM

Heard from bigelow and duke

Posted by: anon | Dec 12, 2018 5:07:46 PM

I can only share that I haven't heard anything from Penn yet...

Posted by: anonymous | Dec 12, 2018 1:13:21 PM

Other than NYU and Penn all the other programs seem to be quite so far?

Posted by: anon | Dec 12, 2018 10:50:33 AM

I suspect people do not post for fear of outing themselves, primarily.

Posted by: anon | Dec 11, 2018 9:36:49 PM

I suspect it's too early for NYU (and possibly others) to know how many fellows they can hire. There may be current fellows who'll leave if they land a TT position but stay another year if they don't.

Posted by: Ann On | Dec 11, 2018 9:23:40 PM

FWIW, I haven’t heard from Harvard or Columbia. Interviewed with NYU but haven’t heard back. How many will NYU hire? When should I start losing hope?

Posted by: Anonwiththewind | Dec 11, 2018 3:51:26 PM

FWIW Columbia sent me a rejection email on Dec 22 last year. Sharswood never sent me anything. Bigelow rejected me in Feb last year.

I will say, this thread is quite silent compared to last year. Is there any particular reason for that? I imagine it's pretty tough to be a competitive candidate on the TT Market or VAP Market and not know about these threads.

Posted by: anon | Dec 11, 2018 2:31:11 PM

anon - I have heard of only one and am not sure of the timing, though it must have been at least a week ago.

Posted by: Annonn | Dec 11, 2018 10:57:33 AM


When did NYU start making offers? How many?

Posted by: anon | Dec 11, 2018 10:44:40 AM

NYU has started making offers. Has anyone heard from Harvard, Columbia?

Posted by: Annonn | Dec 11, 2018 10:37:27 AM

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