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Thursday, August 23, 2018

Law School Hiring Spreadsheet and Clearinghouse for Questions, 2018-2019

In a radical departure from past practice, this year the Hiring Spreadsheet post and the Clearinghouse for Questions post will live together in one post (quel scandale! cats and dogs! etc.). This very post, to be specific. (Last year, there were zero comments on the Hiring Thread post, because everyone just put the information in the spreadsheet. So I figured, let's combine them in one action-packed post! Spreadsheet and comments! Woohoo!)

I. The Spreadsheet

In the spreadsheet, you can enter information regarding whether you have received

(a) a first round interview at a school (including the subject areas the school mentioned, if any, as being of particular interest, and whether the interview offer was accepted);

(b)  a callback from a law school and/or accepted it; or

(c) an offer from a law school and/or accepted it; feel free to also leave details about the offer, including teaching load, research leave, etc. A school listed as "offer accepted" may have made more than one offer and may still have some slots open.

Law professors may also choose to provide information that is relevant to the entry-level market.  

Anyone can edit the spreadsheet; I will not be editing it or otherwise monitoring it. It is available here:

II. The Comment Thread

In this comment thread to this post, you can ask questions about the law teaching market, and professors or others can weigh in.

Both questions and answers can be anonymous, but I will delete pure nastiness, irrelevance, and misinformation. If you see something that you know to be wrong, please feel free to let me know via email, sarah*dot*lawsky*at*law*dot*northwestern*dot*edu.

You may want to take a look at the many questions and answers in the threads from 2014-20152015-20162016-2017. and 2017-2018. In general, there's quite a cache of materials relevant to the law job market under the archive categories Getting a Job on the Law Teaching Market and Entry Level Hiring Report.

Update: Comments have been changed to appear in order of newest to oldest. So the most recent comments are on the first page.

Update, 1/15/19: Some people have requested a "soft open" for the placement information. If you would like information to be added to the spreadsheet, please send me the information or post it in the comments below, and I will add it to the spreadsheet (which I will post once I have a few entries). You cannot add the information yourself. I will publicize this spreadsheet in early March, as I usually do. 

The relevant information to send is, as always,

Basic Information: Name, Hiring School, JD Institution, JD Year of Graduation

Other Degrees: Type of Degree, Degree Granting Institution, Degree Subject

Fellowship, VAP, or Visiting Professorship: Institution and Type (e.g., VAP, name of fellowship, etc.)

Clerkship: Court (e.g., 9th Circuit, Texas Supreme Court, etc.)

Areas of Specialty (up to four) (if you are a clinical or LRW hire, please list this as your first Area of Specialty)

Type of Position: Tenure Track or Non-Tenure Track (if you are clinical or LRW and also tenure-track, please indicate this)

Posted by Sarah Lawsky on August 23, 2018 at 09:00 AM in Getting a Job on the Law Teaching Market | Permalink

Comments

Anonymous | Nov 21, 2018 8:00:20 AM -- I understand the urge to read tea leaves (really.) but it's not going to yield much and you'd be better off spending your energy elsewhere. There are enough small variations in procedure (to say nothing of variations in institutional culture and needs) that no one here can tell you exactly what letter or eval requests mean at School X, especially when we don't know which school *is* School X. I had some (what I thought were) horrible CBs combined with awkward follow up conversations with hiring chairs about the likelihood I'd accept an offer and I still somehow got offers... whereas at some places where I thought the visit was a slam dunk, I came up with nothing. And my advisors, at least based on what they've shared with me about their end of the process, couldn't have predicted which schools would fall into which categories. For instance, yes eval requests are pro forma at some (most?) places, and they might signal that a school has decided it wants you above all others and is simply doing due diligence before making the offer, but they might be because the person writing the report on you is unusually keen on you and is hoping you have excellent evals in order to add one more element to their "pitch"... or it might be something altogether different.

If you're done with CBs I'd suggest doing 2 things, in whichever order of importance or feasibility applies to you. First, try to catch up with some parts of your life that have been put on hold because of the market -- teaching duties (grading assignments, developing exams etc) or personal obligations (spending time with spouse/kids/four-legged friends, making holiday travel plans) or scholarship (reading those 1-2 articles that might help you start imagining the next project). Second, if you don't already have an offer you'd be willing to accept, I'd begin developing a contingency plan for next year. VAP/fellowship? Clerking? Return to practice? -- whatever it is, it will be better and therefore easier to accept if you're not scrambling to put it together in a moment of extreme vulnerability.

Posted by: So&So | Nov 21, 2018 11:59:57 AM

I had four callbacks, all in the T30-75 range, and they all indicated that their votes and offers won't start until the first week of December. So it isn't surprising to see few offers or rejections listed on the spreadsheet.

Posted by: anon | Nov 21, 2018 11:52:29 AM

What is the faculty vote process? How many candidates do they vote on? Everyone who did a call back or a select group? I know they have contacted my references and recently requested my teaching evaluations. Trying to figure out my odds.

Posted by: Anonymous | Nov 21, 2018 8:00:20 AM

help!, what the the rank-ish of the schools you have an offer from and the one in December? Trying to scope out where schools are in the process.

Posted by: Anon_J_Doe | Nov 19, 2018 6:17:09 PM

Confirm that the terms at the offering school are acceptable, and then cancel (candidates should not be expected to give away all bargaining advantage immediately, scarcity of positions notwithstanding).

Posted by: juniorprof | Nov 19, 2018 11:44:28 AM

Yes, cancel. It is in everyone's interest

Posted by: Anon | Nov 19, 2018 10:54:47 AM

I just received an offer from a school that is at the top of my list. I have a callback in early December with a school that I'm not as enthusiastic about, mainly for geographic reasons. Do I cancel that callback? I don't want to waste their time.

Posted by: help! | Nov 19, 2018 10:10:47 AM

A vote of "acceptable" is essentially voting an offer to a candidate, although it's an offer that may not be made if another candidate for the same position has more support and is still available. In other words, a vote of acceptable means the faculty is willing to hire this person, either as a first choice or as a backup. So it's a big commitment. Not getting that far just means you didn't get an offer, either as a first choice or a backup. It doesn't mean anything beyond.

BTW lots of schools don't do things this way. They vote an offer, and if the candidate doesn't accept, they go back to the pool and consider whether they want to make another offer. This process of doing separate votes on acceptability and then ranking acceptable candidates seems like a fairly newish thing at a lot of places.

Posted by: Committee Member | Nov 18, 2018 11:19:34 PM

What standard do schools use when voting candidates as acceptable? Does a vote of unacceptable mean that the candidate was incompetent, or does it simply mean the faculty think they can do better?

Posted by: Acceptable | Nov 18, 2018 8:59:38 PM

Can someone with knowledge of offers (such as someone who is in a Fellowship program and knows others on the market) simply list offers that she/he has heard of....? Thanks.

Posted by: Anon | Nov 16, 2018 3:16:15 PM

anonhopeful - that’s not a bad sign. but some schools will check references of all callback candidates. this is particularly true at some state schools that have strict HR laws

Posted by: anon | Nov 15, 2018 10:06:48 PM

I did my callback at a school a few weeks ago. This week I learned they're checking my references. Is this a good sign or just something they do for every candidate?

Posted by: Anonhopeful | Nov 15, 2018 9:20:43 PM

To “anonprof”: Actually (my area), 34 companies have dropped from the SP500 the last 5 years because of market cap drops (decline). I don’t think anyone is expressing certainty, so I’m not sure what that refers to, but the point is that there are reasons to think law schools are in decline and that some number will close their doors, perhaps a large number, perhaps not. To your point, implying certainly that the school will be there in 15 years is probably unwise. True of any career, and true of that one.

Posted by: J.B. Heaton | Nov 14, 2018 9:53:27 PM

Take it easy. GE may be in distress. Over any five year cycle a few companies will drop out of the S&P 500. Law schools are businesses. They are mostly NFP, but that only means the profs operating them get to suck out the profits (usually as perks more than salaries, because it's hard to find a professional job that's as easy and pleasant as ours). Our industry should see failures and that's okay (anything else would be surprising). An attitude of certainty is both unhealthy and unrealistic, and not something we should model for students.

Posted by: anonprof | Nov 14, 2018 8:36:02 PM

Sorry, that's J.B. Heaton (not Heston).

Posted by: Matthew Bruckner | Nov 14, 2018 12:30:13 PM

Could Georgetown close? Of course! Will it? I surely don't know. But I agree that Heston is hitting closer to the mark than many might think.

As some readers of this blog will know (https://prawfsblawg.blogs.com/prawfsblawg/2016/09/like-pulling-teeth-lessons-for-law-schools-from-the-1980s-dental-school-crisis.html), Georgetown used to have a dental school. Now, the economics and prestige effects of dental schools are very different from those of law schools, but I'd wager that some Gtown dental school faculty were unprepared when their school was shuttered.

IMO, if you're not interested in asking questions about a school's financial health, you're not paying enough attention.

Posted by: Matthew Bruckner | Nov 14, 2018 12:29:00 PM

I think J.B. Heston might be closer to the truth than many of us would want to admit. I teach at a strong but not T20 first tier school and, while the school isn't going broke any time soon, we have seen increasing financial strain. I can only imagine how much more difficult it is for schools that are significantly less of a draw to students.

Another thing that we don't often talk about that makes rankings matter is student quality. There are two reasons this might matter to you:

1. It's just a pleasure to teach really motivated and well-prepared students. And it's markedly harder to teach students that are seriously struggling to understand the material, or are cynical, bitter, etc., because of job prospects. Some people really feed on this: if you're one of those amazing teachers who loves to inspire struggling students and has a natural talent at it, then this might not be a concern for you. But many of us are not.

2. Below a certain point, I don't think it's altogether ethical to take students' money if they don't have a realistic chance of passing the bar and getting a job. When I was on the market, I outright turned down interviews at those schools that we can all name with terrible bar passage and employment rates. Who am I to entrap totally unprepared students with six figures of debt in a school that doesn't offer them adequate support to actually make a career?

Posted by: Another Lawprof Posting Anonymously | Nov 13, 2018 9:26:09 PM

Could those that have offers please update the spreadsheet so that we can all get a feel for who has made offers?

Posted by: anon | Nov 13, 2018 11:36:10 AM

Can we crowdsource a list of schools to avoid if possible? :)

Posted by: anonanon | Nov 13, 2018 11:17:48 AM

You may not have a perfect way to know if a workplace is toxic, but one proxy is how many people have left over the past, say, five years. Are their top publishers (i.e., people with exit options) sticking around or getting the heck out of dodge?

You might also ask how the faculty handled a hard issue recently. Every faculty disagrees on things sometimes. Did they work together as a community to find a solution? Did they break into factions and let the group with the most votes win? They won't fess up to the latter, but you may be able to read between the lines. My faculty really works through contentious issues to make sure people feel heard and then follows up afterwards when discussions get hard, and I am happy to talk about that process with candidates. It isn't perfect, but it has prevented factions and help foster that community feel. So yes, most schools have a party line, but I think it's ok to ask for some specifics in a polite way.

Posted by: anon | Nov 13, 2018 10:39:48 AM

Candidates: I would just say that you should not freak out if (a) you have offers (b) those offers are not from YSHCC.

Of course you should inquire about financial stability, as measured by enrollment, central-law school subsidies (& general relations), and for public universities you should consider overall state health. But just as you can't intelligently decide to go to law school only if you'll end up a partner at Wachtell, you can't decide to be an academic only if you'll be a TT professor at a T5 (or whatever similarly tiny band of schools is sufficiently non-risky). There are too many unknowns and presumably you knew of and factored that into your analysis when you decided to search for an academic job. Your calculus hasn't changed just because someone else has articulated a new standard for adequately risk averse decision-making.

I'm sure there will now be a heated discussion on the appropriate way to gauge stability, when we knew what about any given school, job security in academia vs law practice, Northwestern, Seton Hall, etc. Those are good conversations to have but -- hopefully -- you already had them with yourself, your family, and your mentors. Hopefully you set certain parameters for yourself in determining an acceptable level of risk and inconvenience, if you were to receive a job offer. There has been no new information added to your mix.

Posted by: anon | Nov 13, 2018 10:38:19 AM

when you say "toxic" what do you mean?

Posted by: anon | Nov 13, 2018 10:05:11 AM

"[H]ow does a candidate determine if a particular work environment is toxic?" You might not always be able to. My school, for example, is totally toxic but there's an unspoken norm that we're all supposed to rave about how "collegial" it is in front of candidates.

Posted by: full prof | Nov 13, 2018 9:56:10 AM

Following up on anon | Nov 12, 2018 12:13:39 PM -- how does a candidate determine if a particular work environment is toxic? Of course mentors and friends will have some inside scoops, but not for all schools...

Posted by: anonanon | Nov 13, 2018 12:12:50 AM

To “anon” - my comment is directed at new hires. But yes, I don’t think it’s out of the question that schools like Georgetown - tough example as I think it is actually a better school than Chicago in many ways - will find it tougher and tougher to pay the bills.

Posted by: J.B. Heaton | Nov 12, 2018 10:48:58 PM

Sorry to resurrect the thank you note discussion from a few weeks ago, but are they appropriate for callbacks as well as AALS? If yes, who do we send them to - everyone we met with or just the chair?

Posted by: AnonB | Nov 12, 2018 9:04:33 PM

"there is a very good chance you will not retire a law professor unless you are at a top 5-10 school or a state school in a financially-healthy state"

So the Georgetown lawprofs should start preparing for unemployment benefits?

Posted by: anon | Nov 12, 2018 8:51:02 PM

Law schools are a declining industry, largely due to oversupply (intense price competition) and increasing automation.

If you are entering the academic market now at the age of 30-35, say, there is a very good chance you will not retire a law professor unless you are at a top 5-10 school or a state school in a financially-healthy state. I think it would be crazy not to look at the financial health of the school and, if a public university especially, the health of the state (e.g., Illinois (my state) horrible, Florida awesome). Especially because you are likely to become less and less marketable in an alternative career, this choice needs to be made differently than during the bull market in law which is long past. As a former partner at an elite law firm, I can tell you that we attached virtually no value to the legal academics who approached us (unless they were expert witnesses, but those are rarer in the law schools). A recent high-profile of-counsel affiliation from a Top 5 school occurred only after the person - an exceedingly well-published and extremely highly-cited scholar - had been turned down by a number of much more "prestigious" firms.

And remember: you are only valuable as a teacher of tuition-paying law students or someone who draws such students to the school. No one is paying anything for 99.9% of the writing of legal academics. Writing is how you compete for the job of teaching and getting to do more writing. If your law school looks like it will have a hard time competing for students in the next 5-15 years, this is unlikely to be your last career.

Posted by: J.B. Heaton | Nov 12, 2018 8:11:47 PM

The total number of tenure track faculty at ABA schools is 20% lower now than it was five years ago. Most of that is accounted for by retirements and buyouts of senior faculty, but there have been stealth layoffs at many schools. If you have otherwise attractive offers from two or more schools, it's reasonable to ask if the school is getting a subsidy from central, and if so what percentage of the operating budget that subsidy represents. If the school is free-standing, you can look up their finances via their Form 990 tax disclosure.

Posted by: Committee Member | Nov 12, 2018 6:38:00 PM

Law faculty layoffs are not common in T100, but when they happen, the faculty are in a tough spot. No law firm or in-house department will want to touch them, and it's hard to get another faculty job. (Of course, there are exceptions for the superstars, but they tend not to be affected by layoffs).

Posted by: anon | Nov 12, 2018 3:05:23 PM

I believe Seton Hall a few years ago either laid off or had a faculty buy out? If the economy busts these lower ranked schools won't think twice of downsizing faculty, especially if they are not connected to a larger university (where they sometimes can be saved). It's not too common among the T50 but I do recall the seton hall one from a few years ago.

Posted by: anon | Nov 12, 2018 2:43:39 PM

https://abovethelaw.com/2013/10/law-school-rightsizing-this-is-how-you-do-it/

Posted by: anon | Nov 12, 2018 12:47:24 PM

Had no idea faculty layoffs were a thing for tenure-track faculty. How much of a concern is this with T50 programs? T20?

Posted by: anon | Nov 12, 2018 12:42:12 PM

I am fortunate enough to have two offers now, both in nice locations, and the prospect of faculty layoffs is my biggest concern. What questions should I be asking about school finances? Neither school is part of a state university so the public information is pretty limited.

Posted by: anon | Nov 12, 2018 12:30:59 PM

Differences in ranking are not linear. The difference between 3 and 23 is enormous. The difference between 60 and 80 is non-existent.

For career purposes, the over-riding question you need to be asking yourself when comparing schools is: what are the odds that this school lays off non-tenured faculty in the next seven years? This requires some discreet digging into finances, when you're comparing offers.

Posted by: Committee Member | Nov 12, 2018 12:20:08 PM

Related to the ongoing discussion, I've heard rumors about certain programs (where I have flyouts) being utterly toxic workplaces, though this may be invisible during an actual visit. Has anyone who's been on the market previously run into this? Did it influence your decision-making?

Posted by: anon | Nov 12, 2018 12:13:39 PM

I agree with everything anon at 11:52:27 AM said.

Posted by: Anon | Nov 12, 2018 12:06:18 PM

That's a personal question that everyone has to answer for themselves, but I wouldn't get overly caught up in rankings. When I was on the market, I walked away from schools ranked far higher than the one where I landed because this one was a better fit for me long-term, and I have never once regretted it. It might be different if the second school was ranked 50+ spots different, but I wouldn't change my future for 20 spots.

A few things I would consider. First, it can be hard to tell from a ranking whether a school's best days are ahead of them or behind them. Look carefully at a university's support for the law school, especially in this financial climate. Ask hard questions. Have they been hiring? Have people been leaving? Are their policies becoming more or less favorable for students and faculty?

Second, and perhaps even more importantly, where do you want to live for the next 20-30 years? Sure, maybe you will be able to move, but I wouldn't count on it. So assuming you stay at that school in that geographic area for your career, would you be happy? Can you accomplish all of the things personally and professionally that you might want to do in that area (including outside of your job as a law professor)?

Finally, who will you be working with? Have both schools been hiring a lot recently or would you be one of 2-3 other junior faculty members? Are there people in your field who can serve as mentors at that school or nearby, and do they seem inclined to serve in that role? Rankings matter in some ways, but if they are both good schools, I wouldn't turn over your future to Bob Morse and his algorithms.

Posted by: anon | Nov 12, 2018 11:52:27 AM

I think once you get below a certain number (and one could debate where that number is), ranking matters less than other aspects. In addition to the factors pointed out by others I'd also consider a school's regional / local reputation, the strength of the local legal market, and student employment outcomes. I find that student well-being very much affects my own mood and it's nice to work at a school where most students find paid jobs for their 2L summer and have employment lined up during 3L.

Posted by: newishprof | Nov 12, 2018 11:12:02 AM

In my view, ranking should not matter as such. The real question is: can you do what you want to do with your career from the school(s) that has given you an offer? Ranking can be a proxy for professional opportunities, but it's an imperfect one at best. Consider carefully what you want out of being a professor (contrary to the common wisdom, there are various ways to approach this) and then find better metrics to assess whether you'll be able to do that at the school. If you want to build a national reputation as a scholar, look at what the faculty are doing at the school. Do they publish well and often? Do they host internal and external workshops and colloquia? Are the expectations at tenure in line with what you'll expect for yourself? Is the location such that you have access to the professional networks you need to succeed in your field (i.e., are there other faculty nearby to geek out with, is it easy to travel to the conferences you need to go to). If your priority is teaching and mentoring students, is that a priority that your new colleagues share? Will you have support to become an excellent teacher? Are these aspects of the job the ones that will be valued in the tenure process? If none of the offers you have are from schools where you would ideally spend your entire career, will you have access to the opportunities you need to make yourself a desirable lateral candidate.

On all of these points, ranking may have a little something to say. But not much.

And of course, as the prior commenter already cogently explained, the other side of the equation is your personal preferences and needs re: location.

Posted by: Anonprof re: ranking | Nov 12, 2018 10:50:57 AM

No one can really answer the question of rankings versus other stuff for you because you are largely weighing personal factors against the ranking. How much worse is city in which the better ranked school is located? How much does this matter to you? If you are a homebody, maybe you don't care. If you are single, it might matter more (presuming that your chances of dying alone are better in a larger city and that the better city is indeed larger). If you are bringing a partner along, what are his or her relative career prospects in those places? Do you have friends in the city in which the lower ranked school is located? Which school is closer to your family? How did you feel about the colleagues at the two schools, particularly the people you could be working closely with? Etc. It is difficult for anyone to advise you on these sorts of things. If the benefits to the lower ranked school are "slight" as you suggest here and the higher ranked school is a full 15-20 points higher, I would go with the higher ranked school, but if the benefits aren't so "slight" and there are many of them, I would seriously entertain both offers.

Posted by: anonprof | Nov 12, 2018 12:26:59 AM

How much should candidates weigh school ranking in their decision if in the miraculous position of having two offers? I assume it's safe to say that a ranking of a few spots doesn't matter, but what about say a school ranked 25 versus 40, or 50 versus 70? At that point is ranking correlated with opportunities to publish, etc. in a way that is worth considering, even if the lower-ranked option is slightly more desirable geographically or has some other slight benefit? In other words, how much should ranking factor into the decision?

Posted by: anonanon | Nov 11, 2018 11:54:58 PM

Dear Committee Members -- Other disciplines do tell candidates that they have been short-listed, but didn't make the top 3, etc. I have been short-listed when I was on the market. The hiring committee chair sent me a very nice email, saying it was a difficult decision, but that he would be in touch if something falls through with the other 3 candidates. I have no ill feelings toward the committee or the school. I sincerely appreciate how candid and open they were. My experience with other schools in different disciplines shows that this is not unusual practice. Why not offer candidates in the legal academy the same type of respect and empathy that at least some candidates are afforded in other disciplines?

Posted by: anon_prof_at_a_nonlawschool | Nov 11, 2018 7:01:17 PM

Do all schools offer a "fly-back" once they make you an offer? Or does it just depend on the school?

Posted by: anon | Nov 11, 2018 6:46:04 PM

I would just say to current faculty: it doesn’t help the anxiety for you to email us and tell us everyone loved us, that the vote is happening on a certain night, and that we should expect to hear something by the end of the week. Because when the end of the week comes and goes, we then start wondering if we should follow up. This is especially true if the committee member doesn’t then follow up to let you know what is causing the delay. I think of it as search committee malpractice to send an email like that and then just leave things hanging. It unnecessarily gets hopes up, especially if the committee member can’t guarantee how the vote is going to go and subsequently doesn’t want the candidate to follow up.

Posted by: Anon | Nov 11, 2018 2:29:39 PM

I just want to second the person who said do not contact the committee unless you have another offer. I know this is a ridiculous process and the waiting is torture, but contacting the committee will just make things awkward.

Posted by: CommitteeMember | Nov 11, 2018 1:36:36 PM

There is absolutely no benefit to asking if you are in an "acceptable" group of candidates. The only valid reason to ask for your status is if you have a competing offer.

I know it's hard, but you really can't take this personally. Law faculty hiring, in particular, is very subjective. And 9 out of 10 times, a rejection is due to circumstances out of your control. You may have given an outstanding job talk about tax law, but the school has a need for a property professor, so the school chooses a property-focused candidate. Also -- and I have seen this happen a few times -- a more senior prof will undermine a great job candidate's chances because the professor has a similar specialty and views the candidate as a threat.

Just focus on giving the best job talk possible, doing well in your interviews, and having your references go to bat for you. The rest is really out of your control, and bugging the committee about whether you are acceptable is not going to help you.

Posted by: another prof | Nov 10, 2018 9:27:38 PM

Thank you for the insight. Is there any socially acceptable way to politely ask if you are in the acceptable group?

Posted by: anon | Nov 10, 2018 3:06:16 PM

If you know the school has voted and you have not heard anything, then that likely means one of three things: 1) the school has not yet received permission to extend the offer (at most schools they have to get University permission for every step in the process); 2) you were voted "unacceptable" and will not be getting an offer even if everyone else in the pool declines the offer; or 3) you were voted "acceptable," and the offer will come to you if the person(s) ahead of you turn it down.

Most schools get very quiet around this time because the above scenarios are uncomfortable to communicate. Typically, they'll never tell you that you were found unacceptable; you'll just never hear back from the school. As for the third scenario, the fear is that a candidate will feel offended that they know they weren't first choice and/or the school will become less attractive to the candidate. What most candidates need to realize, however, is that if you are voted acceptable, it means the faculty would be delighted to have you join them, and the ranking of the candidates can be influenced by a number of factors outside of merit or faculty interest in the particular candidate. Also, on any given faculty, you'll find many folks who were not first choice. It just doesn't matter.

Posted by: anonprof | Nov 10, 2018 12:02:54 PM

I completed a callback and I have a feeling that I am not the #1 person on the list of people the school wants to extend an offer to, but may be further down on the list. How would we know if we are further down the list? Silence around the time they said they would make offers? Or is it customary for the school to let the alternate candidates know in some way? Lastly, is it all appropriate to ask?

Posted by: anon | Nov 10, 2018 11:23:55 AM

In case anyone is unsure of the typical process, the school completes all the callbacks for a particular position and then schedules a meeting. Those meetings can be hard to schedule, but it's at that meeting that the faculty will vote. Thus, if you were an early callback, you might have to wait several weeks.

Posted by: anonprof | Nov 9, 2018 8:53:25 AM

anon Nov 7, 2018 7:30:42 PM: There is no prescribed period of time. For example, if you were among one of the first callbacks at that school, it could be a long while, whereas if you were among the last, it could be less time.

Posted by: anonprof | Nov 9, 2018 1:48:02 AM

anon | Nov 7, 2018 7:30:42 PM,

I'm currently on the market, so I'm not a veteran source of knowledge here, but if you have already had a callback and need to know your status for some reason (e.g. another offer), I think you should feel comfortable reaching out and asking directly.

To answer your question, though, it is still quite early in the call-back process, so I don't think you should be close to assuming you are out of the running just because you haven't heard anything.

Posted by: to anon | Nov 7, 2018 7:35:47 PM

How long after a callback should I assume I'm no longer in the running?

Posted by: anon | Nov 7, 2018 7:30:42 PM

Hi PaperLess,

IMO, asking for your job talk paper is not code for summarize your existing research. It means that they would like to see a draft of your ready-to-publish paper. So, yes, I would expand one of the papers in your research paper into an article that you can share with the committee.

Good luck!

Posted by: Matthew Bruckner | Nov 5, 2018 8:42:35 PM

I'm aware that JMU has extended offers to interview for their B school.

Posted by: B School | Nov 5, 2018 8:36:14 PM

Don't play games. If the interview didn't go well on their end, it didn't go well. If you know, you know. Say no thank you now. Somebody may very well want that position notwithstanding the situation and you're doing them and the law school a favor by letting them know you aren't interested at the earliest possible time.

Posted by: anonprof | Nov 5, 2018 11:17:20 AM

I am in a similar situation to [anon|Nov 5, 2018 8:04:52 AM]. I've been in private practice at a large firm but have managed to publish quite a bit on the side. Multiple interviews and call backs, including one at a school outside the T100. My experience with that school was different, however. All of the faculty seemed to enjoy each other and the school and understood that its unique mission and circumstances helped it serve a class of students that otherwise get overlooked. It also seems to be financially stable (although I'll dig into that a bit more if I get an offer). I would be very grateful to join academia there (no offer yet, but fingers crossed). I only share this because I was surprised at the general attitude and culture at the school. They didn't seem to have any qualms at all about not being a T100 law school, and people genuinely seem to enjoy being there (recognizing, of course, that every institution has its weaknesses and politics). My visit opened my eyes and made me realize that I need to avoid my inclination to get hung up on rankings or the prestige of the school. There are diamonds in the rough out there where people can have fabulous careers as academics.

Posted by: Anonymous | Nov 5, 2018 11:14:13 AM

You may be able to leverage the offer in regard to your other callback, so I would not withdraw.

Posted by: anon | Nov 5, 2018 10:06:54 AM

You may be able to leverage the offer in regard to your other callback, so I would not withdraw.

Posted by: anon | Nov 5, 2018 10:06:53 AM

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