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Thursday, August 25, 2016

Law School Hiring, 2016-2017, Thread One

Those on the market are invited to leave comments on this thread regarding whether they have received:

(a) a first round interview at a school (including the subject areas the school mentioned, if any, as being of particular interest, and whether the interview offer was accepted);

(b)  a callback from a law school and/or accepted it; or

(c) an offer from a law school and/or accepted it; feel free to also leave details about the offer, including teaching load, research leave, etc. A school listed as "offer accepted" may have made more than one offer and may still have some slots open.

Law professors may also choose to provide information that is relevant to the entry-level market.  

Four miscellaneous things:

1. If you don't want your contact information displayed, enter [email protected] or something like that as an email address.

2. There is a  separate thread, "A Clearinghouse for Questions," for general questions or comments about the teaching market. Please do not use the thread below for general questions or comments. (Such comments will be deleted, not out of hostility or in a judgy way, just to keep this thread focused.)

3. There's quite a cache of materials relevant to the law job market under the archive categories Getting a Job on the Law Teaching Market and Entry Level Hiring Report.

4. Finally, in each of the previous years, someone who is on the market has volunteered to aggregate the information on a spreadsheet. If you would like to volunteer, please contact me directly at sarah *dot* lawsky *at* law *dot* northwestern *dot* edu, and I will get you set up.

Update: No aggregator this year; instead, anyone can edit the spreadsheet. It is available here:

 Here is a link to the last page of comments.

Update: You can also add your information via this Google form, which was created by someone on the market this year.

Originally posted August 25, 2016; updated September 1, 2016, to add spreadsheet, and September 16, 2016, to add the link to the Google form.

Posted by Sarah Lawsky on August 25, 2016 at 09:00 AM in Getting a Job on the Law Teaching Market | Permalink

Comments

I would also add costs - people coming from the east coast for one or two interviews is no big deal and could bd done in a day really. But coming from chicago or the west coast? Especially if one has a family that is a huge investment of time and resources for only an interview or two. Schools care about who gets interviews and at least of the top schools a candidate may (wrongly) be perceived as less marketable if they have few interviews, especially if they are a hot field.

There are always cases of people with 1 or 2 interviews getting the job. But if that is all you got and you have no otherwise positive signal from a good school (such as receiving requests for materials), then it is unlikely to add to anything

Also consider how educated you are about the process. I am astonished to see so many people who think you can go to aals and get interviews there! It is still hard to get a job in this market if you are not a fellow or otherwise super connected to the law schools and have someone advocating on your behalf. If you are a lone wolf (even a more qualified lone wolf) with few law schools connections, it is extremely hard. This process is not about merit, it is about connections as well and if you don't have that working for you and still only have a few interviews despite being an excellent candidate you should not fault yourself..

Posted by: anon | Sep 29, 2016 5:16:41 PM

"anonymous," my comments weren't directed at you -- sorry for the confusion. I just had that thought this morning and wanted to share. Nothing on here prompted it.

I don't think there's any thing to how many interviews you have. Two years ago, I know of a candidate who got only one interview in D.C., but it turned into a callback and then an offer. Part of it depends on what field you're in. I can say that we are hiring for a position this year that few people in the FAR have the background for; thus, we're interviewing a small number of people, and I got the impression that those people don't have many interviews overall given how much availability they seemed to have when we were trying to schedule them (and that makes sense given the relatively small demand for their speciality).

Even if you're in a high demand field (which seems to be business, tax and health this year), you just never know. You may not have lots of interviews, but there may be something about your candidacy in particular (for instance, the other courses you're interested in) that make you especially attractive to a certain school. Every year we interview folks in D.C. who, for some reason or another, don't get a callback with us, but then end up being another school's top pick (I know that because we hiring chairs sometimes talk).

I have also known of people with sterling credential who got lots of callbacks, but somehow missed out on an offer at every one of the schools. For instance, there are people in the FAR this year who were in it last year, and I'm amazed they didn't get picked up. This is not a perfect process, and sometimes folks just fall through the cracks.

So, I don't think you can put much stock in number of interviews.

Posted by: AnonHiringChair | Sep 29, 2016 5:13:09 PM

I think it depends on the position and school. Are they advertising for your position? Some schools have a main thing they want and then bring along a few people for another position, may be better to bale out in that case, are you that excited about the schools and would you realistically move there? I gave up a interview in a location i would no where move, it is only really right to do that. Do you have another year of a fellowship or if coming from practice would a fellowship be a better option? If you are not a fellow or Ph.D. and only have 1-2 interviews might not be worth it if coming from practice. Fellows and PhDs have no choice. Also many people may better be suited to a fellowship the first time out, also is this your first time? I do not know numbers but I would bet a majority of us are on the market for a second or third time

Posted by: Anon | Sep 29, 2016 4:46:16 PM

I think it depends on the position and school. Are they advertising for your position? Some schools have a main thing they want and then bring along a few people for another position, may be better to bale out in that case, are you that excited about the schools and would you realistically move there? I gave up a interview in a location i would no where move, it is only really right to do that. Do you have another year of a fellowship or if coming from practice would a fellowship be a better option? If you are not a fellow or Ph.D. and only have 1-2 interviews might not be worth it if coming from practice. Fellows and PhDs have no choice. Also many people may better be suited to a fellowship the first time out, also is this your first time? I do not know numbers but I would bet a majority of us are on the market for a second or third time

Posted by: Anon | Sep 29, 2016 4:46:15 PM

I second AnonHiringChair's comments re Skype

Posted by: AnonCommitteeMember | Sep 29, 2016 4:28:47 PM

To clarify: I am not asking what a "sufficient number" is b/c I am considering not going. I am asking just as a general matter.

Posted by: anonymous | Sep 29, 2016 4:20:53 PM

@AnonHiringChair (or anyone else): what would you consider a "sufficient number of interviews" in this market climate? I believe the suggestion use to be 15 interviews for every 1 job. But it seems that so many variables have changed the calculus (the rise of fellowships and VAPs, combined w/a downward turn in the economy/market for legal academics, and then this year, a reduction in the number of FARs).

Posted by: anonymous | Sep 29, 2016 4:20:10 PM

I just want to offer a bit of advice. If you feel you have not scheduled a sufficient number of interviews to justify traveling to D.C., it is perfectly all right to email the school and ask if a Skype interview would be permissible. We had that experience with a number of candidates last year, and it was no problem. One even made it into our callback pool. So I post this just to let you know that's an okay thing to ask. I would hate to see a candidate shell out all that money just to come to D.C. to meet with us, and to know they don't have a lot of other interviews would not influence my opinion at all as different schools have different needs and value different things. So, for what it's worth . . .

Posted by: AnonHiringChair | Sep 29, 2016 10:15:25 AM

My school send out one wave of interviews last week. We will be sending out more invitations tomorrow and next week.

Posted by: AnonCommitteeMember | Sep 29, 2016 10:03:19 AM

NYU Lawyering Program interview, via email today.

Posted by: anon | Sep 29, 2016 12:10:23 AM

Sorry, typo: "no Cornell AALS interview."

Posted by: anon | Sep 28, 2016 5:44:06 PM

I got the Cornell EEO form but no Cornell AALS form. I'd much rather be in your position :)

Posted by: anon | Sep 28, 2016 5:43:43 PM

AnonCornell: in the same boat (Cornell AALS interview but did not receive EEO form from them) - glad to know I'm not alone.

Posted by: anonCornell2 | Sep 28, 2016 4:34:18 PM

Anyone hear from UGA for their business law slot? I am wondering if they already filled their interview slots.

Posted by: anon3 | Sep 28, 2016 3:21:45 PM

Crickets this week. And if the "missing spots" are all going to laterals in stealth mode, does that mean that the meat market will be oddly quiet?

But seriously, what happened to Akron Int'l Law?

Posted by: Anon | Sep 28, 2016 3:07:45 PM

Anyone else with a Cornell AALS interview that did NOT receive aforementioned EEO form?

Posted by: anonCornell | Sep 28, 2016 2:02:55 PM

Anonymous: I got an interview with Georgetown in mid-Sept. Nothing else from T15.

Posted by: anon | Sep 28, 2016 11:18:57 AM

Someone up threat mentioned they know of people who had interviews at a bunch of those schools. I imagine some of the people in fellows program gossip among each other so they probably know more about what people other than what they themselves have.

I think alot of the top schools are going for the lateral market. There are tons of people who went to low ranked schools the past few cycles. Some schools almost never hire entry level. NYU, for instance, I don't think has hired entry level in over 5 years, if ever? So even if you have an interview at a top school, I would imagine that many of them will go for laterals and some, like NYU or Yale, almost always hire just laterals.

Lateral people are more cagey about things because they don't want their current schools to know stuff. So if alot of the top schools are going for laterals that may not reflect on this board. Plus laterals already have jobs so they are less obsessive about checking this board!

Posted by: anon | Sep 28, 2016 10:54:54 AM

Do others really think the calls are done? I'm surprised by how few of the top 15 schools are known to have scheduled interviews. I don't see any mention of: Harvard, Stanford, Columbia, NYU, Berkeley, Michigan, Duke, Georgetown, or Texas. This despite the fact that several of these schools (and others I haven't listed) went to the trouble to post openings in the placement bulletin. Maybe people are just more cagey about revealing interviews for top schools?

Posted by: Anonymous | Sep 28, 2016 10:46:34 AM

I'm curious: Did anyone hear from Akron? Or did they cancel all of their searches?

Posted by: Anonomon | Sep 28, 2016 8:25:35 AM

They're pretty much done.

Posted by: Anon | Sep 28, 2016 8:14:53 AM

So do we think there will be any more calls this week or are we pretty much done now?

Posted by: Anon | Sep 28, 2016 7:59:36 AM

robert bartlett

Posted by: anon22 | Sep 27, 2016 11:47:20 PM

Does anybody know who the hiring chair at Berkeley is? Thank you....

Posted by: Anon | Sep 27, 2016 11:10:31 PM

I would think the odds of getting anymore interviews at this point are slim -- doesn't mean some people won't, but I can't imagine that there are lots of schools with more than a few slots remaining. I think you could plan to leave Friday, and if any new requests come in, you could try to also book those for Friday and, if that's not a possibility, offer to Skype.

Posted by: AnonHiringChair | Sep 27, 2016 10:47:07 PM

Hello, have two interviews scheduled at this point for friday. Should I just book flights at this point for going in thursday and leaving friday night? Or stay on Saturday?

Posted by: Anon | Sep 27, 2016 9:51:58 PM

Further it is my understating that in the lateral market schools approach you. If a school like Cornell were interested anyone at other than a t14 would at least entertain the possibility. Being on an Eeoc list of 40 candidates does not mean you are serious about leaving or even whether you will get the job. A school could approach you and you could say no and still be on Eeoc list.

Posted by: Anon | Sep 27, 2016 6:34:18 PM

If you are on the market and if you are getting interviews at places like Cornell I would bet your current employer knows anyway. I think anyone at a lower ranked school who is writing a lot and in good places schools would assume they are on the market at some point. In other disciplines getting outside offers is the only way to get stuff at your current institution in fact. Schools do not have so much of a personal tie to anyone to assume that a promising junior is not trying to move up. It is expected you may try to move up especially if it does not seem you have much of a tie to the area of the original school.

Posted by: Anon | Sep 27, 2016 6:29:42 PM

Many thanks, Bulletin!

Posted by: [email protected] | Sep 27, 2016 6:11:59 PM

I sent it, ALawProf1234. Good luck!

Posted by: Bulletin | Sep 27, 2016 5:47:45 PM

Still hoping that some kind soul will send me the Sept. 1 Placement Bulletin ... . [email protected]

Posted by: [email protected] | Sep 27, 2016 5:33:43 PM

#RedBearLeaks

Posted by: anon | Sep 27, 2016 5:21:05 PM

Would you like your boss to know that you are applying for another job?

Posted by: anonCornellapplicant | Sep 27, 2016 5:17:14 PM

How is your career at stake because someone might find out you were sent an EEO form...

Posted by: Anon | Sep 27, 2016 5:05:44 PM

Someone sent it to Above the Law.

Posted by: Anon | Sep 27, 2016 4:52:37 PM

By publicizing a data breach, you are inviting others to attempt to get the information from those of us who have the information. It only takes one of us to sell out.

Still, it is good to know that you would not be sharing the information. That makes two of us.

Posted by: anonCornellapplicant | Sep 27, 2016 4:27:20 PM

By publicizing a data breach, you are inviting others to attempt to get the information from those of us who have the information. There should be no further mention or discussion of the breach.

Still, it is good to know that you would not be sharing the information. That makes 2 of us.

Posted by: anonCornellapplicant | Sep 27, 2016 4:26:04 PM

As the person who posted the original comment re the Cornell mailing, I certainly agree that the initial email was a breach of confidence and that any disclosure of names from that email in this forum would amount to a further breach of that confidence. But I do not see why it constitutes a breach of confidence, rather than a valid sharing of non-confidential information, to mention the mistake that was made without sharing names. That is why I shared the bare fact that the mistake occurred without supplying any identifying information.

If I am missing something, please help me understand the problem. I'm not trying to be obtuse.

Posted by: anon | Sep 27, 2016 4:11:53 PM

That disclosure by Cornell was a mistake and a breach of confidence. All 30-40 of us on that email need to agree not to publicize the list of persons involved. Our careers are at stake here. I request that the moderators delete the previous mention of that list, including this comment, and all further references to it.

Posted by: anonCornellapplicant | Sep 27, 2016 3:57:50 PM

Cornell just sent out an email -- to approx. 30-40 people who were included in the "to" line rather than bcc'd -- asking for voluntary EEO information. Not sure if this means anything important, but it seemed possibly telling to me.

Posted by: anon | Sep 27, 2016 3:39:00 PM

fletcher school info is in the new bulletin today. it is also available on higheredjob.com or chronicle of higher education.

Posted by: anon22 | Sep 27, 2016 3:30:16 PM

Georgia initially gave no subject but later specified in a follow-up email crimpro crimlaw and evidence.

Posted by: anon | Sep 27, 2016 2:00:16 PM

I got a UGA interview weeks ago. This is proof there are waves of invites!

Posted by: anon | Sep 27, 2016 12:51:45 PM

what field Georgia?

Posted by: anon | Sep 27, 2016 12:01:22 PM

Interview offer from U. Georgia this morning, via email only, no subject area specified. A welcome reprieve from several weeks of near-total silence (this is just my third interview). Keep hope alive! Or so I keep trying to tell myself :-)

Posted by: anon | Sep 27, 2016 11:31:19 AM

Has anyone any info on Berkeley's entry level hiring?

Posted by: 192889 | Sep 27, 2016 11:01:23 AM

Anyone know who is on the hiring committee at Tufts Fletcher School?

Posted by: AnonyLaw | Sep 27, 2016 10:48:55 AM

Anyone actually getting calls this week? Or crickets?

Posted by: Anon | Sep 27, 2016 10:40:13 AM

But what are those subject areas for schools 7-15? I agree- I think beyond the top 5, these schools do have specific subject areas in mind but they just do not advertise them as readily. Berkeley advertised its subjects, but the other ones not so much. I think they have preferences going in, and don't tell anyone because they want to keep options open for a 'wow' candidate.

And I would not be surprised if many of the top 10 do not hire any entry levels this year. there are a ton of underplayed people from the cycle 2-3 years ago, so I would expect at least half of the viable candidates are coming from that pool.

Long term, many of those underplayed people probably want to move up. i can imagine it may create some dissension on faculties where you have this group of young, HYP people on the faculty with the old timers who did not nearly go to as prestigious of schools

Posted by: anon22 | Sep 26, 2016 4:59:45 PM

@3NT: with limited exception of the top 6 schools, the top 15 law schools are indeed wed to subject areas.

Posted by: anonymous | Sep 26, 2016 4:27:03 PM

@3NT: top 15 schools are almost never wedded to particular subject areas.

Posted by: anonymous | Sep 26, 2016 1:11:54 PM

St. Thomas interview. Scheduled via e-mail on Saturday, 9/24/16. No subject area specified.

Posted by: academicrealness | Sep 26, 2016 12:27:15 PM

Anyone know who's on the hiring committees at Marquette, South Carolina, and/or George Mason?

Posted by: anon | Sep 26, 2016 8:30:39 AM

Anyone know who's on the hiring committees at Marquette, South Carolina, and/or George Mason?

Posted by: anon | Sep 26, 2016 8:30:39 AM

I'm interested in the lateral market in the future ... I have no interest in being in the FAR, going to DC, etc. Can someone email me the Sept 1 Placement Bulletin? For obvious reasons, I don't want to ask for it on campus. I'll keep it anonymous, if you want. [email protected] Thanks!

Posted by: ALawProf1234 | Sep 25, 2016 8:53:38 PM

I have heard that Emory is looking in health law mostly.

Posted by: anon22 | Sep 25, 2016 7:27:50 PM

Any idea what subjects are of the top 15 are looking for? I think if you look at the entry level hiring the past 2 years you could pretty much guess what they are not looking for if they just made a hire in criminal law for instance. But there is not much info on whether any of the top 15 or so are favoring certain subject matters.

Seems like it is a bad year to be anything other than health law, criminal, business law or tax.

Posted by: anon | Sep 25, 2016 7:26:35 PM

Any idea what subjects Cornell / Northwestern / Georgetown are looking for?

Posted by: 3NT | Sep 25, 2016 6:08:11 PM

Thanks, anon 1:24.

Posted by: anonDC | Sep 25, 2016 3:30:16 PM

peter smith at gw

Posted by: anon | Sep 25, 2016 1:24:40 PM

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