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Monday, November 25, 2013

VAPs and Fellowships: Open Thread, 2013-2014

As requested, here is this year's open thread in which comments can be shared regarding news of appointments to VAPs or similar fellowships (for example, the Climenko and Bigelow).  (Here is last year's thread.)

(If someone wants to aggregate this information, email me, slawsky *at* law *dot* uci *dot* edu, and I will set you up with an embedded spreadsheet.)

Update: We have an aggregator! Below is the spreadsheet, which you can view and download here.

From the aggregator:

The column titles should be self-explanatory.  Most columns are populated by dates, each of which may have a descriptor next to it indicating (method of notification) AND/OR [slots filled/total slots].

Dates correspond to the posting date or the date I (VAP Aggregator) received an email directly.

Reports on some programs leave outstanding questions based on the information provided.  I have highlighted those in yellow in the hopes folks will provide additional info.  (Committees, you are especially encouraged to correct me if I make a mistake.)

Some programs are not running this year (either via their webpage and/or reports).  I have marked those rows in gray, but preserved them to help make the spreadsheet reusable next year.  Additionally, once a program has completed hiring, I will mark those rows in (a lighter) gray.

Submit any questions/comments/corrections to vapaggregator (at) gmail (dot) com.

Originally published 11/25/13.

Posted by Sarah Lawsky on November 25, 2013 at 04:18 PM in Getting a Job on the Law Teaching Market | Permalink


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Columbia's Associates in Law Program is finished hiring for the year.

Posted by: Anon | Apr 30, 2014 2:12:34 PM

I interviewed for a Bigelow 22 years ago and I still haven't heard whether I got it or not, so....

Posted by: anon | Apr 30, 2014 12:00:44 PM

What a terrible practice. Seems to be the same situation with Columbia A-i-L. Haven't received a rejection even though they've undoubtedly finished hiring.

Posted by: anon | Apr 29, 2014 8:58:06 PM

In case anyone was still in doubt: received email confirmation that Bigelow, Climenko, Chicago-Kent VAP, and BU VAP aren't hiring anyone else. It appears that it is no longer the norm for schools to inform applicants that they did not receive a position. Applicants are expected to contact the schools individually.

Posted by: anon | Apr 29, 2014 6:49:01 PM

Email rejection from Penn State.

Posted by: anon | Apr 11, 2014 8:21:59 AM

Chicago seems to be the only top-tier school that historically has made more than one or two offers to its own VAPs--this is the first time that Duke has hired one of its own VAPs, and Cornell doesn't seem to do it much either. The same applies to Georgetown.

Posted by: anon | Apr 10, 2014 8:43:11 PM

Many of the top schools hired people with preexisting relationships, with many being current VAPs - Duke, Cornell, and Chicago hired current VAPs/fellows, as did Notre Dame, OSU and Toronto. Some fellowship programs like NYU, Columbia AIL and Climenko never hire their own people, but others do, and I think VAP programs like Duke are maybe slightly better programs to land a TT hire at the school you are VAPing at. Among legal writing, Bigelow too has a history of hiring internally.

In any event, it was an extremely difficult year to land a fellowship, through no fault of the candidates. Maybe we will see more candidates coming from practice. It takes more effort to establish relationships but if you are able to write from practice you can probably reenter the market in a year or two and try to get a job. Fellows do better than the overall pop in getting a job but I don't think it is because of being a fellow in and of itself, it is because fellows are more likely to have publications and recommenders, which really is the main thing that matters in this crazy process.

Posted by: anon | Apr 10, 2014 8:21:33 PM

Whether they're extending current people or not, it's pretty depressing to be on the VAP market this year. Long, long waits (submitted my Columbia AiL application in September without a word since!) that will all but definitely end in rejection anyway. Cruel stuff! Hope the market turns around soon.

Posted by: anon | Apr 10, 2014 5:29:26 PM

"both its VAPs this year," I mean.

Posted by: anon | Apr 10, 2014 4:58:27 PM

Not sure about the others, but Duke placed both its VAPs this in top tier schools.

Posted by: anon | Apr 10, 2014 4:57:01 PM

I have yet to hear rejections (or any word for that matter) from many of the programs, I.e., Columbia, Climenko, Bigelow, Sharswood, Grey, etc. Anyone have any idea what is holding the schools up?

Besides Climenko, Bigelow and some of the Stanford programs, who look to have done well comparatively, it looks like from the entry level report many of the fellows have not placed this year, I.e, NYU only had one of its tax lawyering people place, 1 Columbia AIL, 1 Duke VAP, no Georgetown or Penn, etc . Maybe not everyone has reported to the entry level report yet but perhaps some of these schools extended their current people another year and thus hired few or no people or maybe they are waiting to see if their current people get a VAP? I am not sure.... Were there just so few fellowships actually hiring this year?

Posted by: anon | Apr 10, 2014 1:23:42 PM

Penn state rejection, says positions have been filled.

Posted by: anon | Apr 10, 2014 12:48:03 PM

Penn State is not responding to emails.

Posted by: anon | Apr 7, 2014 7:40:39 PM

Has anyone heard anything from Penn on the Sharswood? Interview, rejection...?

Posted by: anon | Apr 7, 2014 5:02:06 PM

Columbia Academic Fellows had interviews around the same time as AiL.

Posted by: Anon | Apr 4, 2014 7:38:33 PM

To 'Columbia?', I'm not sure, but someone reported on March 4 that they had an interview for the A-i-L program, so I imagine if you haven't heard from them by now you are probably unsuccessful. Not sure about the Academic Fellows program.

Posted by: anon | Apr 4, 2014 3:14:05 PM

Anybody know if Columbia A-i-L and Academic Fellows are still hiring?

Posted by: Columbia? | Apr 4, 2014 1:08:57 PM

anyone hear anything from penn state?

Posted by: anon | Apr 2, 2014 8:40:40 PM

Also received email from Northwestern saying they're not taking any VAPs for this coming year. I haven't seen any of their current VAPs on the lists for new TT hires, so it's possible that they're sticking around for another go at the market.

Posted by: anon | Apr 1, 2014 3:15:33 PM

Just got rejected from NYU Global Hauser Program. That's two rejections this morning.

Posted by: anon | Mar 31, 2014 12:22:30 PM

Cornell VAP rejection, Northwestern VAP not hiring anyone.

Probably will be a long list of rejections this week....

Posted by: anon | Mar 31, 2014 12:04:24 PM

Anyone hear from BU? I never received an acknowledgment of my application. Last week, I emailed them to see what was going on but received no response.

Posted by: anon | Mar 31, 2014 11:32:58 AM

Rejected from Cornell VAP this morning.

I guess it's safe to assume Columbia A-i-L is also a rejection given that they were setting up interviews a month ago.

Posted by: anon | Mar 31, 2014 11:21:52 AM

Snail mail rejection from Georgetown LRF received March 28

Posted by: anon | Mar 30, 2014 10:10:42 PM

Rejection from Berkeley Microsoft fellowship and Stanford law and tech teaching fellowship (early March)

Posted by: anon | Mar 26, 2014 12:28:55 AM

Any word on what is going on with all the fellowship programs mentioned by Anon on 3/15? With the exception of NYU, Duke and I suppose Georgetown who have sent rejections, it seems like there is radio silence from most of the programs. In prior years, rejections were sent by this time already from most programs. Are these programs pretty much wrapped up and they are just holding off sending rejections for some reason or are any of them still seriously considering candidates and scheduling interviews?

Posted by: anon | Mar 26, 2014 12:27:41 AM

Kernochan interview

Posted by: anon | Mar 25, 2014 11:10:25 PM

Georgetown LRF rejection (by mail).

Posted by: nonprof | Mar 25, 2014 10:39:12 PM

LSU is not offering positions to fellows this year.

Posted by: anon | Mar 21, 2014 1:23:50 PM

LSU is not hiring fellows this year.

Posted by: anon | Mar 20, 2014 10:22:03 PM

Chicago Kent IP fellowship has made offers

Posted by: Clueless | Mar 15, 2014 12:12:35 PM

I don't think any of this is news, but just to add my info to what's already been stated above: as of March 15, no decision from Grey Fellowship, Climenko, Columbia Academic Fellows, Northwestern, BU, Cornell, Georgetown Law Research Fellowship, Shughart Scholar program, Sharswood Fellowship, IIT Chicago-Kent. Received emails from Brooklyn, ASU, and Washington University stating they're not doing VAPs in 2014. 2/4 email rejection from Duke. 3/11 email rejection from Yale PhD.

Posted by: Anon | Mar 15, 2014 10:30:04 AM

@anon 3/9/14 6:10:26 PM The NYU Lawyering AAP Program lasts for three years anyway. Do you, or anyone else, know of AAPs who stayed on at NYU after the third year was up? Or other schools that have let their VAPs stay on after their term had technically run out?

Posted by: anon | Mar 11, 2014 8:18:27 AM

Has anybody heard from the Yale ISP or Columbia associate in law?

Posted by: Anon | Mar 10, 2014 11:47:18 PM

I know at least one person from each of the following schools that stayed on beyond the original two-year contract: Cornell, Duke, Georgetown, Illinois, NYU AAP.

Posted by: anon | Mar 9, 2014 6:10:26 PM

Any word on which schools are letting their unplaced VAPs stick around for (at least) another year?

Posted by: anon | Mar 9, 2014 12:51:30 PM

GWU IP offer made

Posted by: anon | Mar 8, 2014 11:26:02 PM

also, no ASU VAP this year

Posted by: anon | Mar 5, 2014 11:19:29 AM

did anyone get a rejection from Columbia A-I-L yet?

Posted by: anon | Mar 5, 2014 11:19:06 AM

Any word on the Columbia Capital Markets fellowship?

Posted by: anon | Mar 5, 2014 10:34:48 AM

Interview for Columbia A-I-L.

Posted by: anon | Mar 4, 2014 11:04:07 AM

Any copyright scholars here? The Kernochan Center for Law, Media and the Arts at Columbia Law School has put out a call for applications for a 2014-2016 Intellectual Property Fellow. Details here:


Posted by: IP Fellows | Mar 2, 2014 5:35:46 PM

anyone apply/hear anything from Boston U ?

Posted by: anon | Feb 22, 2014 6:06:22 PM

i think im officially done for this year...

Posted by: anon | Feb 18, 2014 11:04:14 PM

Anyone know if the Yale PhD is done?

Posted by: anon | Feb 18, 2014 1:13:26 PM

no VAP at Brooklyn this year

Posted by: anon | Feb 18, 2014 1:05:19 PM

I imagine most places call for actual offers.emails seem to be more the norm for setting up interviews.

Posted by: anon | Feb 17, 2014 10:36:26 PM

Do we know whether offers are made by email or call?

Posted by: Anon | Feb 17, 2014 1:12:16 PM

NYU has given offers , I assume they completed their process.

Posted by: anon | Feb 17, 2014 1:07:36 AM

Any nyu offers?

Posted by: Anon | Feb 14, 2014 10:20:22 PM

"Rejections" in this context can be viewed as letters barring you from boarding the Titanic.

Posted by: anon | Feb 14, 2014 6:49:17 PM


Posted by: anon | Feb 14, 2014 2:28:03 PM

Valentine's ding from NYU as well, plus a note from Brooklyn that they're not hiring VAPs at all this year.

Posted by: anon | Feb 14, 2014 1:55:40 PM

Congrats on the Yale PhD!

Posted by: anon | Feb 14, 2014 1:45:17 PM

Yes, a Valentine's day rejection from NYU here also. Yale PhD in law admission a couple weeks back.

Posted by: anon | Feb 14, 2014 1:39:39 PM

Ding from NYU Lawyering Program.

Posted by: anon | Feb 14, 2014 1:36:57 PM

Any more details on Columbia A-I-L?

Posted by: Anon | Feb 12, 2014 3:05:06 PM

Anon 12:14, you assume that any individual can go on the market as many times as they want. Beyond the personal limitations many candidates have, particularly time -- mental and physical fortitude, and family constraints -- there are three major practical challenges to repeatedly going on the market until "sooner or later" a tenure-track offer comes along.

The first is that many schools develop institutional knowledge of the candidates on the market (and whether they have been on before). If candidate X starts the process with a 20% chance in the first year, that may remain at 20% for the second year, but it is likely to quickly drop in years three, four, five, etc.

The second is that you would need a new, unpublished job talk paper each year. Few people can repeatedly do that while in practice.

And, third, marshaling recommenders is an important component of promoting your candidacy. But recommenders are busy and have lots of potential scholars vying for their support. Recommenders are unlikely to keep going to bat for a struggling candidate year after year. It's demanding of their time and, at some point, the recommender is going to question whether recommending a candidate that no one wants to hire reflects poorly on their own reputation.

Posted by: BAG | Feb 9, 2014 7:40:27 PM

My assessment is that a VAP improves a candidate's odds of getting a tenure-track job offer in the final year of the VAP (versus applying to tenure-track jobs from practice), but it also forces the candidate to be subjected to the employment outcome of whatever the hiring market is like in that specific year.

A hypothetical (with completely made-up percentages):

Candidate X can stay in practice and apply for a tenure-track job every year. Let's say she has an average of a 20% chance of securing a tenure-track job in any given year coming from practice. Sooner or later, she may well get a tenure-track job offer and she can decide whether that specific offer is more or less attractive than staying in practice. She will be able to compare two known options and make an informed decision: the specific tenure-track job offer versus her current job.

If Candidate X takes a VAP, her odds of getting a tenure-track job in the final year of her VAP are much improved. Let's say she has a 60% chance of getting a tenure-track job that year. Importantly, however, she has a lot of pressure to get a tenure-track job in that one specific year. If she doesn't get a tenure-track job, she faces unknown employment prospects as a "failed" VAP. Thus, Candidate X has pretty much committed herself two years out to accepting whatever tenure-track offer she is able to hopefully get out of that one hiring cycle. Unfortunately, the employment outcome in any given hiring cycle for an individual candidate is wildly unpredictable -- your area may not be in demand that year, you may not click with a key hiring committee member, you may come down with bronchitis during the conference, et cetera.

Posted by: anon | Feb 8, 2014 12:14:49 PM

Yale's PhD in Law has made some offers, and Columbia Associates in Law has sent out at least some emails about scheduling interviews (I'm not sure if either has finished, though). Good luck to everyone in this frustrating process!

Posted by: anon | Feb 6, 2014 8:29:20 PM

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