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Wednesday, February 13, 2013

The Angsting Thread (Law Review Edition, Spring 2013)

Friends, the time has come when Redyip is visible.  You know what that means. Feel free to use the comments to share your information (and gripes or praise) about which law reviews have turned over, which ones haven't yet, and where you've heard from, and where you've not, and what you'd like Santa to bring you this coming Xmas, etc. It's the semi-annual angsting thread for the law review submission season. Have at it. And do it reasonably nicely, pretty please. Maybe Redyip will even tweet a little this spring.

Update: here is a link to the last page of comments.

Posted by Administrators on February 13, 2013 at 01:08 PM in Blogging, Law Review Review | Permalink


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The one time I got feedback it left me infuriated. Really, if I had just done X you would have thought my paper was good enough for you (T5)? It made me want to publish in peer reviewed journals after that, since those would give you a "revise and resubmit" decision (i.e., same journal would accept the paper if the editors were satisfied you made the changes they requested).

Posted by: panda | Mar 8, 2013 12:05:41 PM

@vappermint - Anon is just being obnoxious/cynical. I have received some very helpful feedback from editors upon request.

Posted by: Going Rogue | Mar 8, 2013 11:41:50 AM

@Anon, I meant feedback more along the lines of shorter intro, fewer footnotes, etc.-- changes within my power.

Posted by: vappermint stick | Mar 8, 2013 10:56:05 AM

@ anoff. This is the first time I am following this blog or comparing notes with others, even though I have tenure already. what make this cycle "worse" than others, exactly?

Posted by: panda | Mar 8, 2013 10:27:32 AM

anoff, I guess it's more true of T50-100 -- there are websites like the Cardozo Law Review which explicitly say there won't be decisions until mid-March.

Posted by: anon | Mar 8, 2013 10:05:08 AM

Vappermint: unless you can change your CV, why bother?

Posted by: Anon | Mar 8, 2013 9:49:16 AM

submitted 2 weeks ago to top 60 (and 2 days ago to the next 90 after that) and have just 8 dings. good thing i get to go on spring break now and stop checking this thread for a while. if my school's journal dings me (it has dinged others but not yet me), is it appropriate to ask for a little insight/feedback so i understand better what to change next time?

Posted by: vappermint stick | Mar 8, 2013 9:06:35 AM

@anon: I don't think this is true. Angsters reported dings from most of the T50 law reviews. This means they're all running.

Posted by: anoff | Mar 8, 2013 8:45:10 AM

Take heart everyone -- it seems clear that a lot of journals are only now getting rolling with going through submissions, or even haven't started yet.

Posted by: anon | Mar 8, 2013 8:18:59 AM

@ILLaw: I fully empathize. Many of my colleagues argue that this is the worst cycle ever. I submitted a few weeks after you, but the response so far corroborates my colleagues' intuition.

Posted by: anoff | Mar 8, 2013 7:51:28 AM

@AnonAsstProf: My experience is the same. Submitted a month ago to ~T120+10 specialties. Got 25 dings and no offers.

FWIW, here's my list of dings:

Harvard Law Review
Yale Law Journal
Michigan Law Review
University of Pennsylvania Law Review
Texas Law Review
Virginia Law Review
California Law Review
New York University Law Review
Cornell Law Review
William and Mary Law Review
Vanderbilt Law Review
Duke Law Journal
University of Illinois Law Review
George Washington Law Review
Indiana Law Journal
Washington Law Review
Florida Law Review
Yale Journal on Regulation
Houston Law Review
Tulane Law Review
Brigham Young University Law Review
Pepperdine Law Review
Utah Law Review
Tennessee Law Review
Saint Louis University Law Journal.

Posted by: ILLaw | Mar 8, 2013 12:15:40 AM

AnonAsstProf: It's been a weird cycle for a lot of people. Wait a few weeks before throwing in the towel. The chips have NOT settled yet, not by a long shot. And then there is always resubmitting next cycle (which continues to be a possibility for me, too, as well as for profs I know who have great letterhead and previous top journal placements).

Posted by: Anon | Mar 7, 2013 10:03:08 PM

One month today. Zero offers. 23 dings. I am seriously thinking of withdrawing from all journals that have yet to reject me, revise, and resubmit this fall. Am I just panicking?
Re-read the entire piece yesterday to try and figure out what did I do wrong. Found one typo down on page 37 or so. Could have probably added a few more footnotes/cites (currently about 250 FNs for an article of about 55 pages). Would rewrite a few paragraphs. Bottom line, I couldn't find any real problems. True, my field is a little challenging from a general-placement perspective (a three letter word, starts with a T and ends with an X), but still, not even a single offer?

Posted by: AnonAsstProf | Mar 7, 2013 9:46:56 PM

Yes, I heard from HCR-CL about a final board review a few weeks ago but didn't make the cut, alas.

Posted by: early Feb. | Mar 7, 2013 8:19:28 PM

yes, I heard from Harvard Negotiation Law Review. They extended an offer about two weeks ago and were very nice/professional to work with.

Posted by: panda | Mar 7, 2013 8:05:49 PM

Anyone hear anything from or about the Harvard specialties (especially Law and Public Policy or Civil Rights-Civil Liberties)?

Posted by: Anon | Mar 7, 2013 7:49:13 PM

Tenured4thTierProf - Well said. So good to remember that.

Posted by: Brightside | Mar 7, 2013 6:09:07 PM

Thanks 1stTimeEssayist and 4:44. I had a feeling that was the case, but wasn't sure. Still not sure about the expedites, but I suppose we'll see if the approach I took works.

Posted by: notyetaprawf | Mar 7, 2013 5:45:02 PM

thisorthat, I went with the T40.

Posted by: anon-a-moose | Mar 7, 2013 5:40:12 PM

One more data point: I sent out my piece on Feb. 26th to the T100, plus some specialty journals. So far, I have received 5 rejections from journals others have also heard from: Yale, Mich., Va., Cornell, and BU. By my count, this is the ninth time I've gone through this process, and I've done fairly well, but it's still a soul-sucking experience. You wait around for weeks, constantly checking email and voice mail, and slowly but surely getting what seem like a million rejections and, if you're lucky, a tiny number of acceptances. Even at the end, which should be the high point, you only say yes after you've heard a bunch of additional rejections from journals you wanted more than the one you got. Each time, I've become more convinced of the incredible randomness of the process. A few times I've gotten a bunch of offers from journals in the T60-80 and expedited up journals in the T30. Other times, I've gotten offers from T40 and T10 journals without expediting, or with only one jump. Twice, I sent out a piece and got nothing, resubmitted it in almost identical form the next cycle and got a T40 placement.

Posted by: Tenured4thTierProf | Mar 7, 2013 5:25:58 PM

anon-a-moose: Did you go 'great specialty' or t40?

Posted by: thisorthat | Mar 7, 2013 5:21:10 PM

I'm done for the season as well. I submitted at the end of the first week of February. Offer from a T70, then a really great specialty journal, and then a T40. I'm happy to be finished.

Posted by: anon-a-moose | Mar 7, 2013 5:11:00 PM

2/14 and 2/25, I am in the same situation, submitted nearly 3 weeks ago and no response from the frequent dingers on this list, including Duke, Penn and Chicago. Any editors/former editors want to shed light on this? Someone told me that article are bundled into three piles: yes now, no now, and to consider properly when there is either an expedite request or a space available. True or false?

Posted by: Submitted 2/15 | Mar 7, 2013 5:09:36 PM


Posted by: 2/28 | Mar 7, 2013 5:03:48 PM

Thanks, Anon at 4:44, for giving me false hope that an acceptance was waiting for me in my Junk folder.

Posted by: 2/28 | Mar 7, 2013 4:57:56 PM

Whoops. That came out wrong. I don't "generally" thank them. I always give them general thanks, etc.

Posted by: Anon | Mar 7, 2013 4:45:34 PM

@notyetaprawf: I think journals definitely do want an email to acknowledge receipt. I generally thank them in the email, too. I think that's enough. But they probably do want to know they did not end up in your SPAM box and you are aware of the deadline.

Posted by: Anon | Mar 7, 2013 4:44:10 PM

My silent top-20 list is similar: Stanford, Columbia, Duke, Virginia, Penn, Northwestern, Texas, Vanderbilt, USC, GW.

Posted by: 2/25 anonyme | Mar 7, 2013 4:36:54 PM

It has been almost 3 weeks and still haven't heard from these top-20 or so schools: Harvard, Stanford, Columbia, Duke, Virginia, Penn, Northwestern, Georgetown, Texas, USC. Some of those are expected, but some are weird given that everyone else seems to have received their rejections (I'm looking at you Virginia and Penn).

Posted by: 2/14 anon | Mar 7, 2013 4:30:23 PM

Duke ding.

Posted by: anoff | Mar 7, 2013 4:13:45 PM

Chicago, Duke dings.

Posted by: 2/28 | Mar 7, 2013 3:14:48 PM

I'd like to think that right now Harvard, Yale, & Columbia editors are meeting together with their boards, thinking about my diamond of an article. In just 30 minutes, my phone will start ringing off the hook.

Posted by: team player | Mar 7, 2013 3:05:41 PM

@notyetaprawf - Re: #1...I respond via email every time to thank the journal for the offer and confirm that I will be in touch if I have questions. I also often ask when they think my piece would be published because timing can help me decide between multiple offers. To me, it seems rude not to respond at all but perhaps some journals prefer not to receive "unnecessary" emails.

Posted by: 1stTimeEssayist | Mar 7, 2013 3:00:16 PM

Just got an offer from a good specialty in the field, but at a T100 school. A couple questions:

1) It is common to respond with an email acknowledgement to the offering journal before the deadline if you don't have questions?

2) How far up to expedite?

Posted by: notyetaprawf | Mar 7, 2013 2:35:14 PM

Dear Law Reviews: my article is still available.

Posted by: Anon | Mar 7, 2013 11:21:53 AM

Congrats, BG. I'm hoping those specialty offers you're releasing are quick to make other offers.

Posted by: 1stTimeEssayist | Mar 7, 2013 11:08:01 AM

By "multiple" confirmations, I meant 5. Columbia, BU, UCLA, South Carolina, and one other who confirmed and rejected in the same email.

Posted by: 1stTimeEssayist | Mar 7, 2013 11:06:36 AM

DONE. And what a strange ride it was. Submitted 2/19. Got five offers from T20 specialties (including one from which I had withdrawn) and another from a T30 specialty (after my deadline and having withdrawn). T50 offer within a week of submitting, but then mostly silence despite expedites and approaching deadline. After striking out with a T14 full committee review, accepted T50 offer.

Never heard from NW, USC, GW, ND, WashStL, Emory, W&L, ASU, Iowa, Ala, NC, OSU, GM, Ariz, Hastings, Wake, Colo, FSU despite directly emailing each the day before my deadline to see if they needed additional time to reach a decision. (These emails did prompt responses from Maryland, Vandy, and Wisc.)

Glad to be done and, frankly, satisfied that a journal that believed in my article early on is the one that will be publishing it. Enough time has been spent angsting. Time to get back in the saddle.

Posted by: BG | Mar 7, 2013 10:17:52 AM

"Fur Elise" looks funny without the umlaut.

Posted by: Going Rogue | Mar 7, 2013 10:02:03 AM

FirstTimeEssayist, are a lot of journals confirming your expedite requests? I've only had confirmations from UCLA and BU, and it's been a few days. Another thing to angst about, yay!

Posted by: anon | Mar 7, 2013 9:40:42 AM

FirstTimeEssayist, are a lot of journals confirming your expedite requests? I've only had confirmations from UCLA and BU, and it's been a few days. Another thing to angst about, yay!

Posted by: anon | Mar 7, 2013 9:40:40 AM

Offer from a T26 school off expedite, 2 hours before deadline.

Posted by: anonsst (submitted 2/4-21) | Mar 7, 2013 6:38:07 AM

ding from Forhdam. off expedite, original submission on 2/10.

Posted by: doc | Mar 7, 2013 12:40:18 AM

BU ding off expedite.

Posted by: FirstTimeEssayist | Mar 6, 2013 10:46:54 PM

@ TJ - I feel your pain. I've selected the "prefer not to say" option and disclosed the journal's name in the email. It's worked fine. Multiple journals have confirmed my request and indicated that they know the offering journal's name. It's not ideal but it works ok.

Posted by: FirstTimeEssayist | Mar 6, 2013 10:28:41 PM

So I have two major complaints about the new ExpressO interface:

1. The expedite request page automatically defaults to the current date when sending expedites. This makes it really easy to send an expedite that mistakenly identifies today's date as the expiration date--which then makes journals think that the offer has expired and withdraw the article. I personally have made this mistake twice this season, both times necessitating an embarrassing follow-up email that may or may not have cured the problem. I doubt I am the only one.

2. There is now a drop-down menu to identify the offering journal. But the drop down menu does not include non-ExpressO journals and there is no other option to enter the name of the journal manually. So it seems that if one has an offer from a non-ExpressO journal, one must select the "I prefer not to disclose" option to expedite. Which, of course, is the kiss of death for expediting.

Posted by: TJ | Mar 6, 2013 9:41:09 PM

In other news, I'm escaping the angsting. I just started taking piano lessons and am about to start learning Fur Elise. What does T20 mean when confronted with such a sublime song?

Posted by: Steve-o | Mar 6, 2013 8:10:45 PM

Anoninpanic, yes. This has been the case for me with Utah and Colorado, among others. They've been rejecting others who submitted later than I did, but eventually my dings also came through. I have learned not to be fooled by the timing of others' rejections. It means absolutely nothing.

Posted by: AnonAsstProf | Mar 6, 2013 8:08:40 PM

@anoninapanic, I see the rejections of others and think my article didn't get auto-dinged on letterhead or topic but was probably sorted to the pile where maybe they'll read it if I expedite it. But so far nothing on which to expedite.

Posted by: vappermint stick | Mar 6, 2013 8:02:08 PM

Does the certification of an offer through Expresso allow other journals to see the deadline? I was thinking of giving myself a little padding (3-24 hours) between my stated deadline and the actual deadline, especially since some deadlines are at midnight. But could another journal see my actual deadline on Expresso?

Posted by: Anon | Mar 6, 2013 7:59:08 PM

Does anyone else see the rejections of others who submitted after them and think "I'm in with a shot!"? Inevitably the rejection is forthcoming...

Posted by: anoninapanic | Mar 6, 2013 7:56:43 PM

In the last two days I've had dings from W&M, GW, and Colorado. Submitted 2/16.

Posted by: anon | Mar 6, 2013 6:37:25 PM

Harvard 2/7. Illinois 2/11.

Posted by: AnonAsstProf | Mar 6, 2013 5:20:54 PM

AnonAsstProf, when did you submit?

Posted by: anon | Mar 6, 2013 5:09:26 PM

Harvard and Illinois dings. Not off expedite.

Posted by: AnonAsstProf | Mar 6, 2013 5:02:03 PM

@decisions...I would take the HYS specialty so that you have "something for everyone" on your resume when you go on the market. Every faculty member has his own way of ranking placements. If you take the HYS specialty, you'll impress the ones who think that's particularly impressive and your other placements will impress those who value those placements.

Now hurry up and release one of those offers so I can snag it.

Posted by: 1stTimeEssayist | Mar 6, 2013 4:56:25 PM

I know this has been discussed in a bit in this thread, but I am not yet a tenure track professor. I have offers from a main law review that is top 50 W&L, but only a top 65 school on US News. I also have an offer from one of the well-regarded specialties at one of H/Y/S. Which one would look better on my resume when I go on the TT market in a few years? I already have publications at a T100ish main law review and a T25ish specialty on my resume.

Posted by: decisions.... | Mar 6, 2013 4:45:29 PM

I agree with law prof, and we appear to be having the same experience. I submitted to the top 60 or so on 2/21. I have nine dings (Yale, Chicago, Michigan, Cornell, UVA, Duke, Washington, Georgetown, and Utah). Otherwise silence. But my first offer came almost a month after submission last year, and I didn't submit until mid-March that year. Every year, I have colleagues who are done before I get my first offer. The process is different for everyone.

Posted by: Patience | Mar 6, 2013 4:40:44 PM

Yale J Reg ding. Submitted 2/27

Posted by: AnotherAnonProf | Mar 6, 2013 4:34:52 PM

Appreciate the updates. I will add mine. Submitted to 35 journals on 2/19 and then 18 others on 3/5. I've had eight dings from the first group: Michigan, Yale, Chicago, Cornell, UVA, W & M, Penn, and Illinois. Otherwise, silence. My last ding came on 3/1; no communications at all in the last 5 days.

It is way too early for angst, let alone despair.

Posted by: law prof | Mar 6, 2013 4:02:05 PM

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