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Friday, May 04, 2012

Employment woes - a recycled gift and a new vignette

A while back I guest blogged on Faculty Lounge and wrote a post for recent graduates who were suffering the woes of the difficult entry level legal market. I also provided some vignettes from my own personal experiences on the job market that were designed to make students and recent graduates feel a little better, if only for a moment - some schadenfreude if you will. You can find the background information for my situation at that time and some advice for facing the entry level market on that post here, along with the original vignettes of my unfortunate existance at that time. However, I recycle one of them below along with a new one - enjoy.

Vignette #4 – federal judicial clerkship – aka “the Patsy”

As stated earlier, I applied everywhere. This was a federal clerkship in Texas. I was living in Tennessee at the time.  I got the interview and drove to a not so rockin city in Texas – as with many job interviews, this trip was all on my own dime. I show up at the office and introduce myself to the secretary. She tells me to wait in an adjoining room. I look at pictures of the judge with Reagan. A federal staff attorney comes by the secretary’s desk to talk. I’m in the next room, but I can clearly hear everything. He asks about the interviews for the clerkship position. She says, “yes, we received over 100 resumes and have narrowed it down to 3 interviewees.” I am like “yes, I am the man” (pumping my fist in the air). She then adds “but it’s going to Jane Doe, she’s so and so partner at big law firm’s daughter who is a good friend of the judge.” I then have to go through this entire interview. The judge asks “so, you went to UT huh?” I say “Yes, the University of Tennessee, sir.” He looks like he’s seen a ghost and double checks the resume. I can only guess that he wanted locals for the interview. I don’t know. He did send me a page and a half (single spaced) rejection letter telling me how awesome I am and how much he really wanted to hire me.

New Vignette - It smells like a robbery in here

I was still unemployed and interviewing with a fairly well-regarded medium sized insurance defense firm. I didn't meet with individuals - some of the partners (about five as I recall) just met with me all at the same time and we sat at a large table. Everything was going great and there was a  wonderful feel in the room except for one partner - he looked a little like a smaller version of the director John Waters and he had an almost permanent sneer on his face - the kind where it looked as though he had just smelled something really bad and was repulsed.

Between the delightful exchanges with the other partners this guy would ask questions that were really just insults to my candidacy and then give a "how ya like that" kind of ending - thus, making it a question, I suppose. In one of the more pleasent exchanges it came to light that I had interviewed for a judicial clerkship -- "Why in the hell would you do that?" he asked. I just said that I thought it would be valuable experience - this caused him to throw back his head and sigh loudly (yes, it can be done). He then looked on my resume and challenged one of my college activities -- "wrestling team? You don't look like no wrestler to me!" -- I wanted to challenge him to a match right then and there, but I instead just said that it was in fact true. (Sorry - I had no biting comeback and still thought I had a shot at this thing). Finally, the interview ended and the other partners very nicely shook  my hand and led me to the waiting room (front). .... But I can't leave - apparently the bank downstairs is being robbed -- and I have to sit in the waiting room for an hour until it's secure. During this time the John Waters partner walks by shaking his head and making a "ppffftt" sound. Eventually I am allowed to leave.

Ok Prawfs readers - it's now your turn - provide some vignettes for students and recent graduates facing the job market - c'mon, it will be fun.

Posted by Dingo_Pug on May 4, 2012 at 12:46 PM | Permalink

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Comments

Hi Jeff!

When I was 25, I had an interview for an entry-level position with a public defender's office that had a really outstanding reputation; this was a tough interview to get. I prepped for it, and I drove about 2 hours each way.

All seemed to be going great, until my interviewer asked, "You're not very big, and you don't have a deep, booming voice [this was true: I was then--as now--a 5' (almost) 4" woman]. So, how would you go up against a big gorilla of a prosecutor in court?"

I responded that I would be very prepared and would put on a great defense (citing examples from my two years doing defense work at my school's legal clinic), but he was clearly unconvinced that I could make it as a trial attorney, presumably given my lack of resemblance to a gorilla. He suggested I consider appellate work.

Posted by: Melissa L | May 6, 2012 10:45:45 AM

During law school in 1987, I drove the few hundred miles from Oxford, MS to Chattanooga to interview with a 6th Circuit judge. He had all 3 of his current clerks sit in on our interview in his office which was unusual and unnerved me a bit. All 3 were grads of the same law school and I happened to know someone a year behind them at their law school and so, to break the ice and alleviate my nervousness at the beginning of the interview, I dropped his name. The eyes of all 3 of the clerks immediately widened. I was alarmed by their expressions which were telling me to run away as fast as possible. At that point, the judge repeated the name I had just dropped in an incredulous and significantly outraged tone. He then launched into a 15 minute non-stop rant about how the most important ability a lawyer should have was the ability to make a decision. After the 15-minute rant (which seemed much, much longer the way time standing still tends to do), the 2-minute interview portion of the interview commenced. Two perfunctory questions were asked by the judge and answered by me. He then suggested I go back with the clerks to their offices and ask them some questions.

As I was heading down the hall with the clerks, I told them I was leaving to find the person whose name I had dropped to kill him in cold blood but I wanted them to explain to me the specific reason I was going to kill him before I left to do so. They told me this individual had actually interviewed for a clerkship with the judge and had been offered the position but had dilly dallied about it which peeved the judge so the offer had been withdrawn. Having second thoughts, he then pestered the clerks to convince the judge to give him a second interview which the judge decided, I assume motivated by morbid curiosity, to grant. The very first thing this individual said to the judge at the start of his very short second interview was that he just could not make up his mind whether he really wanted to do a clerkship at all. The judge was not well pleased and advised that wasn't really going to be an issue. This had occurred a couple of weeks before my "interview."

The rejection letter from the judge's chambers didn't actually beat me back to Oxford but it didn't take it very long to get there. It had been mailed out on the day of the "interview." I didn't go find and kill the person whose name I dropped during the "interview" but I've also never spoken to him since. Something about driving several hundred miles round trip for a 2-minute "interview" made me cranky, I guess.

Posted by: David Case | May 5, 2012 11:27:45 PM

During my 2L year at the University of Illinois, I bid for, but did not get, an interview with one of the large Chicago firms. But, Illinois had the policy of forwarding on the resumes of everyone who bid for interview slots, so it wasn't unheard of to have firms squeeze you in if they were interested. This is what happened here: a few days before they were scheduled to be on campus, they called me and said they were coming down early and would like to meet with me the day before the scheduled interviews. I happily agree.

Day of the interview. I knock on the door at the appointed time, and the interviewer answers, says he's still in with someone else, and will be with me in a minute. Okay, no problem. Twenty-five minutes later, the other guy finally comes out of what was supposed to be a 20 minute interview. I then go in. I rock the interview. It turns out the interviewer was involved in some of the same activities when he was a student at Illinois, etc. It's probably the best interview I've ever had. I leave, convinced I'm getting a call back.

Two days later, the day after they finished interviewing people at Illinois, I get a form rejection letter thanking me for my interest, etc. Based on the timing of my interview (between 4 and 5pm), it had to have been mailed *before* the interview. I was simply gobsmacked—they went out of their way to ask me to meet with them, and then rejected me out of hand. It was just insulting.

Posted by: Charles Paul Hoffman | May 4, 2012 4:27:32 PM

Anon - bullet dodged = win

Posted by: Jeff Yates | May 4, 2012 2:40:00 PM

I interviewed with a large firm in my region. I had published several law review pieces during law school, and a partner explained that he would definitely plan on using my law review writing skills to co-author journal articles. He said he was interested in publishing in academic journals as well as in regular bar and trade journals. My eyes were lighting up over the opportunity to continue publishing, since I really enjoyed academic writing. Then, he added: "Of course, your name would not appear as an author, but I think you will find the experience very rewarding." He then went on to explain how I wouldn't get billable hour credit for these assignments, so he hoped I could manage my time effectively. They never made me an offer.

Posted by: Anon | May 4, 2012 1:50:58 PM

Sorry - I sign in with my Twitter account, so Dingo_Pug = Guest Blogger Jeff Yates. I'll make a note to self :-)

Posted by: Jeff Yates | May 4, 2012 12:51:23 PM

In the one 2L summer big firm interview I dared to go on, I told a senior partner that the idea of corporate work sounded boring. Surprisingly, I didn't get the job...

Posted by: Paul Gowder | May 4, 2012 12:49:20 PM

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