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Sunday, September 06, 2009

Law School Hiring Thread, 2009-10, Thread One

NB: This thread will be moved to the front every ten days or so. 

This thread is for both law professors and people who are on the market this coming year for becoming a law professor. We invite those on the market and those who are prawfs to leave comments (anonymously if they prefer) regarding a range of things:

a) whether they have received a call from a particular school inviting them to an interview at the AALS meat market, and/or whether they accepted it; also whether the school has asked for a candidate's scholarship yet

b) whether they have received a callback from a law school and/or accepted it

c)  whether they have received an offer from a law school and/or accepted it; feel free to also leave details about the offer or info about teaching loads, research leaves, etc.

Law professors may also choose to provide information that is relevant to the entry-level or the lateral market.

Bear in mind: if you don't want your contact information displayed, please just enter in [email protected] or something like that as an email address.

This post will be moved to the front of the blog once every ten days or so, and we will also try to provide updates in the comments that consolidate the various bits of information here. We hope one of you will volunteer to do the agglomeration work that Marc DeGirolami did last year. If you are looking for links on how to manage going through the job hunt, check out the posts under these three archives:herehere, and here.

To get things started: FSU (as of early August) has begun (but only begun) inviting laterals for the fall and will soon turn to exploring the rookies in the near future. FSU will be doing a substantial amount of hiring across a wide range of areas. If you are interested in joining FSU's faculty, please contact Manuel Utset at  [email protected]

Update: Comments are closed.  Go to Thread Two to add information.

Posted by Administrators on September 6, 2009 at 12:00 AM in Getting a Job on the Law Teaching Market | Permalink


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Update: Comments are closed. Go to Thread Two to add information.

Posted by: Admin | Sep 11, 2009 5:57:00 PM

also, please give some info on the area of law, anonaronaroonironibonitheponyzimboni

Posted by: anonfrombeyond | Sep 11, 2009 5:40:56 PM

Which Colorado--Boulder?

Posted by: anonfrombeyond | Sep 11, 2009 5:37:40 PM

add Colorado and Southwestern (in LA)

Posted by: anonaronaroonironibonitheponyzimboni | Sep 11, 2009 5:33:41 PM

There are about 190 law schools in the country. Just over a third of law schools have contacted candidates. That does not mean that those law schools have completely filled all their interview slots, just that they have started. As I said earlier, most calls come in mid to late September and they can go well into October.

Posted by: David Frakt | Sep 11, 2009 5:06:54 PM

Thank you whatsinaname, that's probably what I'll do. My work in progress is thematically tied to my last pub, so I think I can also draw from that and have the job talk reflect a larger scholarly inquiry of mine, while focusing most closely on my current project.

-anon @2:30

Posted by: anon | Sep 11, 2009 4:57:35 PM

so_totally_anon: many committees have not even met yet. Others are just beginning to fill slots and won't fill them all till right before the conference. (This is all in other posts on this thread). Also, all you need is one interview to get a job. That said, if you only had a couple you might want to try and make alt arrangements for the interview. Btw, I have ZERO interviews. I do expect to get some tho. Sure hope so!

Posted by: anonfrombeyond | Sep 11, 2009 4:54:07 PM

Loyola (New Orleans) has started making calls.

Posted by: anon | Sep 11, 2009 4:51:26 PM

It's getting toward mid September and I have one, count 'em, one call back.

At what date is it appropriate to channel the Chicago Cubs and start talking about next year being the year, for sure?

Posted by: so_totally_anonymous | Sep 11, 2009 4:47:48 PM

Re whether to job talk an unfinished piece: Faculty don't want to hear a talk on your pubished work becuase they cannot contribute to the development of that work. On the other hand, I agree you should not distribute less than polished work. Therefore, I suggest you submit an abstract and/or outline rather than your draft. The faculty can view your publications to see your written work; you avoid showing a less than polished piece; and present a job talk a new piece. Win-win-win! This is based on my own research and advice I have recieved cuz I am in the same boat.

Posted by: whatsinaname | Sep 11, 2009 4:43:44 PM

anon, Sep 11, 2009 2:30:13

I accepted a tenure track job offer 3 years ago. I was a VAP for two years before then. As a VAP, I heard numerous job talks. My advice to you, based on what I saw and what others with much more experience told me, is to never present anything unpolished. Leave that to when you are already on a faculty. Job talks should not only be polished but vetted, so that you know what sort of questions to expect. Present one of your complete works if you're unsatisfied with the current draft. But let the hiring chair that you're far along on another article, so that the committee knows that you are creative and able to continue apace.

Posted by: Lucky | Sep 11, 2009 2:47:52 PM

Question: I have three solid pubs, but want to job talk my work-in-progress, which will likely only be in first or second draft form by the time of the hiring conference. How do I respond to schools that want to see a draft then, if I'm not excited by the shape it's in? And, I've heard mixed advice about whether job talks should always be on a finished/polished piece versus a work in progress. Did any current profs job talk an unfinished piece, and how did that go over?

Posted by: anon | Sep 11, 2009 2:30:13 PM

Anon @1:44, just call the schools and ask who the hiring chair and members of the committee are. This is what I did for many schools. The Dean's office usually is where the main number will transfer you to get that info, so you can even call the Dean's office directly. Also, when in doubt send your stuff to the Associate Dean of Academic Affairs or the equivalent--this person generally oversees facutly hiring.

Posted by: anon | Sep 11, 2009 2:23:01 PM

I've got the same problem in terms of having my first recent publication accepted since the FAR form date. I've been sending notes with CV to schools that are especially appealing to me. I've been using the AALS release and the thread here on hiring chairs to see who the chairs are. Those two sources, however, don't begin to list the chairs at all schools that might be a fit for me. Is there any other source that would let me know whom to contact? I was thinking that if they weren't in one of those two places, they probably weren't hiring, but I'm seeing interviews scheduled by schools that haven't announced an interest or chair in either of those fora.

Posted by: Anon | Sep 11, 2009 1:44:33 PM

update your CV on the AALS website and send a note with an updated CV to schools you're interested in.

Posted by: anon | Sep 11, 2009 1:19:35 PM

Question for those in the know:
My FAR form had no legal publications listed. My paper, listed on my CV as "in-progress," has very recently been accepted to a couple of specialty journals and I am currently working the expedite ladder. Does anyone have suggestions for the best way to update the schools who have not yet called me in the hopes that I have become radically more interesting?

Posted by: anony-mouse | Sep 11, 2009 1:01:15 PM

You can ask them if they would prefer to have hard copies of your articles, writing samples, scholarly agenda, etc. or if they would rather have you e-mail them electronic copies.

You can ask them how definite their hiring plans are for this position.

If you are called by one of the junior members of the committee, you might ask if they have any tips of how to impress the more senior members of the committee, or, is there anything you think that I should know about the other members of the committee.

Posted by: David Frakt | Sep 11, 2009 11:52:52 AM

Can someone who got an interview with Denver tell me what your subject areas are. I'd really appreciate it. Thanks!

Posted by: Anon | Sep 11, 2009 11:52:49 AM

I have the same question as anon at 10:09 - I haven't had any questions for them yet and feel a bit awkward about it!

Posted by: anon | Sep 11, 2009 11:31:52 AM

Capital University

Posted by: anon | Sep 11, 2009 11:30:44 AM

When schools call to set up an AALS interview, they invariably ask if I have any questions. I of course know that having no questions for the school at the interview itself is a no-no, but how important is it to ask questions during what is typically a brief scheduling call? And, assuming questions are a good idea, what is an example of a good generic question (it has to be fairly generic, since one never knows which of 200-odd law schools will be on the other end of the phone line)? TIA to committee members and veteran candidates.

Posted by: anon | Sep 11, 2009 10:09:15 AM

Arizona State

Posted by: anon | Sep 11, 2009 9:15:49 AM

You can add Missouri to the list. I'm crim/torts, but I'm not sure if they are just looking for that or other areas as well.

Posted by: anon | Sep 11, 2009 12:13:33 AM

anonaronaroonironibonitheponybiboninonimoni you mentioned that you had 10+ interviews. people are curious as to what your specialty is. if you're going to ask for info regarding who is setting up pre-AALS interviews with schools, it's not too much to ask you to say what your teaching area is. fair is fair.

Posted by: anon | Sep 10, 2009 11:49:36 PM

I was on the market last year and have a few things to add to the good advice people are giving.

1. If you haven't written much and have current employment, consider delaying a year before going on the market if you think you'll be a stronger candidate next year (i.e., will have more drafts/publications). The reason why is that you might end up at a better school, rather than having to work your way up/write your way out of a less desirable place. I delayed going on the market a year and believe it made a big difference in getting the position that I did.

Alternatively, consider applying for a VAP or fellowship so you can keep writing. The people at the school you do a VAP at can be a valuable source of recommendations.

2. If you are in good physical shape, I wouldn't worry too much about back-to-back interviews. I stuffed in 25 of them (which did mean canceling interviews with some schools when I got a better interview). The key to getting to your interviews on time, besides what the above posters have mentioned is to NEVER TAKE THE ELEVATORS! They are notoriously slow, so you always have to take the stairs. If you have several back-to-back interviews, arrive a day early and practice getting around. Figure out where all the staircases are (there is one behind an unmarked door in the cafe that I found to be useful).

Buy a watch that is easy to read, and wear it loose enough that you can subtly shake your wrist to look at the time. The rooms do not have clocks in them, so you have to keep track of time yourself, if you have another interview to go to. Wear dress shoes that you can run in if need be. That being said, for the one interview I was late to, I found everyone to be extremely understanding of my lateness.

3. Keep track of who you have interviews with, when they are, and what room they are in. AALS won't hand you a schedule when you get to the meat market, you have to keep track of it yourself (although they will give you a list of room numbers for schools, some schools have more than one room.)

4. I didn't get some of my best interviews for AALS until 3-4 weeks before the conference. And though I was likely their second-choice candidate, some of those interviews did lead to call backs and one led to an offer.

5. I recommend staying at the Wardman during the meat market, so you can rest between interviews. I avoided the candidates-only reception and the candidate lounge, because I figured being around stressed out people would only make me feel more stressed. If you can afford it, consider bringing a friend or significant other who can provide moral support :).

Good luck everyone!

Posted by: anon | Sep 10, 2009 9:53:06 PM

I listed a few top schools, who have called me OR MY COLLEAGUES. (I didn't list them to brag but simply to provide you with information that they are now in the game.)

Somebody asked about my teaching areas. The top schools that call don't seem to care about my teaching interests, making this question somewhat beside the point. (Top schools use visitors and adjuncts to fill curricular needs, and to some extent simply neglect such needs.)

Posted by: anonaronaroonironibonitheponybiboninonimoni | Sep 10, 2009 9:25:54 PM

Here's the total list as of today.

By the way, as this list gets longer, I'd love to know if anyone's got an idea about formatting so that this doesn't take up so much space on the page. I can't just transfer tabs or columns from Word or Excel - the posting system condenses all the white space so the schools just run into each other. Any other ideas are more than welcome...

1. Baltimore
2. Brooklyn
3. BU
4. Cardozo
5. Case Western
6. Chicago
7. Cleveland State
8. Cornell
9. Cumberland School of Law (Alabama)
10. Denver
11. Drake
12. Elon
13. Florida
14. Florida Intl (Miami)
15. Fordham
16. Franklin Pierce
17. Georgia
18. Georgia State
19. Gonzaga
20. Hofstra
21. Illinois
22. Indiana-Indianapolis
23. Kentucky
24. Lincoln Memorial (Knoxville)
25. Loyola LA
26. Maine
27. Michigan
28. Michigan State
29. Minnesota
30. Mississippi College
31. Nebraska
32. New York Law School
33. North Dakota
34. Northern Illinois
35. Notre Dame
36. Ohio Northern
37. Oklahoma City
38. Penn State
39. Regent
40. Rutgers - Camden
41. Seattle
42. Seton Hall
43. Southern Methodist
44. St. Johns
45. St. Louis
46. St. Thomas (Florida)
47. St. Thomas (Minnesota)
48. Stetson
49. Temple
50. Tennessee (Knoxville)
51. Texas Wesleyan
52. Thomas Jefferson
53. Toledo
54. Tulsa
55. UC-Davis
56. Valparaiso
57. Vanderbilt
58. Wake Forest
59. Washburn
60. Washington Univ. St. Louis
61. Western New England
62. William & Mary
63. Wisconsin
64. Yale (request for more info)

Posted by: thebiglist | Sep 10, 2009 9:11:28 PM

Crim Law/PR -- 7 interviews.

Posted by: anon | Sep 10, 2009 5:47:11 PM

Torts/Admin/Environmental - 1 interview

Posted by: anon | Sep 10, 2009 5:43:30 PM

anon @05:08:39pm -- use this link to reach the most recent comments:


At some point, of course, you'll have to check to see whether it's gone on to page "5"...

Posted by: anon | Sep 10, 2009 5:23:00 PM

Civ Pro, Admin, Fed Courts - 8 interviews.

Posted by: anon | Sep 10, 2009 5:20:19 PM

are u a tax guy?

Posted by: anon | Sep 10, 2009 5:19:52 PM

All of sudden there are mentions of Thursday interviews. Is anyone scheduling those this year? I'm well into the double digits of interviews and haven't yet heard anything about Thursday as an option.

Also, those who have mentioned that schools are offering to pay for your trip to do screening interviews pre-AALS, can you please specify which schools? I'm now working on trying to schedule several pre-AALS and so far it looks like it will be on my own dime.

Posted by: anonaronaroonironibonithepony | Sep 10, 2009 5:14:46 PM

Is there any way to reach the end of the comments without having to click through each page?

Posted by: anon | Sep 10, 2009 5:08:39 PM

Civ. Pro., Admin., Property--7 interviews.

Posted by: anon | Sep 10, 2009 5:08:05 PM

AnonYoungProf, I'm in awe. 30 interviews and even then you turned some down? Turning down callbacks to Tier One schools because you just don't have the time? Despite all that potentially jealously inducing stuff, you still come across as constructive, nice, and not at all all about you.

I hope you ended up in a place you like.

Posted by: BongoBoy | Sep 10, 2009 4:47:34 PM

hang in there

Posted by: anon | Sep 10, 2009 4:40:50 PM

Nope, no family law interviews yet.

Posted by: whatsinaname | Sep 10, 2009 4:35:45 PM

family law guy -- i'm assuming you don't have any interviews yet?

Posted by: anon | Sep 10, 2009 4:21:43 PM

Does anyone have interviews in family law yet?

Posted by: whatsinaname | Sep 10, 2009 4:11:05 PM

that should be friday and saturday at the 3:54 post

Posted by: anon | Sep 10, 2009 4:01:30 PM

Bankruptcy / commercial law - 12 interviews. Also, you can add Univ. of Toledo to the list.

Posted by: anon | Sep 10, 2009 3:57:53 PM

schools set up interviews on thursday and saturday and interview about 32 people.

Posted by: anon | Sep 10, 2009 3:54:56 PM

I was on the market last year and I just want to add a few thoughts.

First, many people recommend only scheduling on the hour or on the half-hour. I started out with this as a goal but found it impossible as schools available slots did not always line up with my program. Also, some schools (e.g. UC Davis) do 45 minute interviews and throw everything off. That being said, I didn't mind have back to back interviews. I did not find it more stressful or tiring but maybe I am weird. I did actually have to take off my heels and run down the hall some time, but everyone seemed understanding.

Second, I think you should cancel interviews with schools that are lower on your list or that you definitely don't want to be at (usually for geographical, prestige, or philosophical reasons) but keep interviews with schools that you are uncertain about. Last year, many schools had budget changes part way through the process. I did interviews with a few schools that I really liked only to learn a month later that they would not be able to hire anyone. It made me kick myself for canceling other interviews. With this volatile market, I would err on the side of taking the interviews. I did 30 (4 pre-AALS) and found it totally doable. (I also said no to a callback with a top tier school because I was having difficulty scheduling it. I kicked myself later for that one when my other callbacks and interviews resulted in a lower yield than I (or my recommenders) expected.

Posted by: anon young prof | Sep 10, 2009 3:52:07 PM

So, most schools interview their first picks on Thur and Friday?

Posted by: an | Sep 10, 2009 3:42:33 PM

I've seen very very few schools explicitly interested in international or comparative law, fwiw.

Posted by: anon | Sep 10, 2009 3:28:54 PM

Anyone in international or comparative law with interviews yet? Thanks.

Posted by: Anon99 | Sep 10, 2009 3:25:42 PM

torts, crim, crim pro -- 8

Posted by: anon | Sep 10, 2009 3:16:49 PM

Labor, Civ. Pro, Employment: 1 interview request (that I had to turn down for ideosyncratic reasons, so zero interviews really). Top 20 school, 5 publications, but no VAP or Fellowship. Also, from reading this blog and the AALS register I can see that one, and thus perhaps truly only one, school is hiring in L&E areas.

Posted by: anon | Sep 10, 2009 3:09:29 PM

Anon with amazing interviews at Chicago, Michigan, and Cornell (among others, no doubt): your area, please? Pretty please? Can you at least say whether you're in an in-demand field? TIA. Just trying to decide when to allow the despair to set in.

Posted by: anon | Sep 10, 2009 3:04:36 PM

Tax - 14 interviews

Posted by: anon | Sep 10, 2009 2:51:26 PM

Torts, Crim and Crim Pro - 3. Keep this info coming so people can evaluate apples to apples since IP and Corporate/Tax people are in much more demand.

Posted by: anon | Sep 10, 2009 2:48:08 PM

IP, Commercial, Health - 5 interviews

Posted by: Anon | Sep 10, 2009 2:40:10 PM

Civ Pro, Labor & Employment, Evidence - 3 interviews.

Posted by: Anon | Sep 10, 2009 2:36:55 PM

add UT Knoxville to the list. I also got requests for more info from Yale and Brooklyn. Interesting, as I know, from this board, that Brooklyn has already scheduled interviews, so I guess they may still be evaluating other candidates (including me)?

Posted by: anon | Sep 10, 2009 2:35:58 PM

New schools to add to the list: Cornell, University of Chicago, and Southern Methodist U, and Michigan.

Posted by: anonaronarooni | Sep 10, 2009 2:33:40 PM

can people list amount of interviews with their specialty areas. you don't even have to name the schools, just teaching areas and number of interviews.

Posted by: anon | Sep 10, 2009 2:26:58 PM

Add Denver and Hofstra to the list.

Posted by: anon | Sep 10, 2009 2:09:13 PM

haven't heard from schools this week. whats the deal?

Posted by: anon | Sep 10, 2009 2:03:57 PM

I had only three interviews at my first AALS and one call-back. Small numbers notwithstanding, I landed a tenure-track job. If you're serious about breaking into academia, spend the money for the flight and the hotel even if you don't have a full dance card.

Posted by: anon who ignored the odds | Sep 10, 2009 11:33:43 AM

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