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Thursday, August 04, 2005
If Ever There Was A Time To Respond With More Than A Comment, This Is It
Ethan's post begs for a rebuttal, and so here it is.
First, one clarifying statement. I have never said, nor do I expect I ever will say, that advocates and activists and victims should never resort to courts. It is plain to see that courts are useful in all kinds of contexts to right wrongs. Unlike Tushnet, I do believe that courts play a useful and necessary role in interpreting the Constitution and statutes. My objection is to the fetishization of courts, both by commentators and advocates/activists. To the extent Ethan's post may be read to suggest otherwise on my behalf, his is a strawperson argument. To be clear, I think his post is much more than that (which is why it merits a serious response); but I want to clarify my own position lest I be misunderstood.
Moving on to the substance, rather than the subtext, of Ethan's arguments, let me initially take up the last paragraph of Ethan's critique, because the arguments there are the ones most often raised. Put simply, Ethan argues that legislatures are not truly responsive to majorities. I don't disagree. But I fail to see how the courts are the answer to these particular problems associated with legislatures. That is, if legislatures are non-majoritarian (and they certainly are non-majoritarian), how does the solution to the problem lie with courts? (Let me be clear: as I will shortly argue, there are times when the solution lies with courts; but it can't possibly be every time.)
Indeed, there is good reason to believe that courts are particularly bad at achieving "justice," whatever we may think that is. I don't need to rehash every bad decision here to make that point. A trip through history suggests that courts are ill-suited, from an institutional and political standpoint, to mediate our political disagreements. And, as a strategic matter, even when courts achieve what we may believe is the "just" result, we may lose in the long run. I've made this argument in connection with same-sex marriage; others have made it in connection with abortion. And even the court's crowning glory, Brown v. Board, has meant far less to the equal rights struggle than the Civil Rights Act of 1964, which had the full force of grassroots political mobilization behind it. Thus, even when courts get it right, which there is no reason to trust that they do on any more regular basis than legislatures, it isn't worth putting all of our eggs in its basket--as liberals seem to have done for a very long time on social issues.
The truth is, the solution lies in Ethan's own suggestions: a truly majoritarian branch of government and/or finance reform. But we are too busy fighting our political battles in court to do the hard work.
Moving on to Ethan's initial (and what I take to be his main) point, that the cost of mobilization is high--too high for the individual to bear--I agree. That's why I do not believe that courts have no role. Advocacy through courts makes the most sense when the individual is a member of an insular minority and/or the harm is unique to him/her and unlikely to be shared by or cared about by others.
But many of our political battles are not over such issues. For instance, Kelo did not affect just a subgroup of people; it affected potentially everyone, and apparently a lot of people took it personally. Similarly, abortion laws potentially affect all women and doctors (and some would say men too). So, putting aside the constitutional issues in Kelo and Roe, there is no reason to think that mobilization would be particularly difficult in response to court decisions, assuming there are not institutional restrictions on mobilization and political activity. (Akhil Amar believes that the law at issue in Roe should have been struck down because it was passed before women could vote, and thus they were institutionally unrepresented in the legislature. I agree.)
The same goes for the french fry case. Children, although they are not entitled to vote, are not a uniquely powerless group in this country; indeed, I suggest that there are more interest groups and laws that seek to protect children and secure rights on their behalf than there are forces that seek to harm children. And the response to the french fry case proves it.
None of this means we can't critique the court decisions; indeed, we should and must. But it does mean that we ought not fetishize them and view the legal system myopically. As a matter of both principle and strategy, we should seek to convince people and legislators; not just judges.
Finally, my strongest response to Ethan is this: It isn't that the Court has no role. Even in Kelo and Roe and all of those other cases, it has a role. But what I am most interested in talking about is the conversation between the branches of government. That is, when the Court decides Kelo one way, how do legislatures react? And what does that tell us about the nature of legislatures, courts, and government? When the Court rules in Roe, how do political groups organize around it, and what are the implications for the future? It isn't so much that I'm a committed majoritarian (though I may be); it is that we are talking about two different things. And I kind of think that the thing I am talking about is somewhat more important in the long run than the question of whether Kelo was right.
Posted by Hillel Levin on August 4, 2005 at 05:09 PM in Law and Politics | Permalink
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Comments
I'm not sure why saying "I don't know (or personally care) whether Kelo was right or wrong, but I'm very interested in seeing its affect" causes us to "conclude" anything. The Supreme Court is what it is, for good or ill. I understand that you really truly very much want me to disclaim every supreme court decision that you think is bad; and you think that I have a duty to do so; and you think my time is better suited doing so than talking about what I'm interested in. You want me to talk about something other than what I want to talk about. Worse, you want me to concede that what I want to talk about is somehow missing the point, or bad.
But surely you can understand why your position on the usefullness and decency of what I find worthwhile to talk about really isn't compelling to me.
Let me remind you that I don't sit on the Supreme Court. I'm entitled to consider normatively the meaning and value of its proclamations, whether I agree with them doctrinally or not; and even whether I just don't know or care much. To the people on the Supreme Court and the people talking to them, doctrine matters far more. To the rest of us, I don't see how it matters much, unless we are personally interested in the issue presented.
Similarly, one can be more interested in the political forces that brought welfare reform to pass than in whether welfare reform as enacted was good or not.
Posted by: Hillel Levin | Aug 5, 2005 11:36:55 AM
We all agree that the court should protect rights to abortion, same-sex marriage, and private property if they are in the constitution or federal statutes, and not if not. [If so] [t]hen we are left with the interesting empirical questions-- was Roe bad for abortion rights, was Kelo good for private property rights, and would a ruling (what kind of a ruling, by whom, and when?) on same-sex marriage be good or bad for ssm advocates?Surely the most interesting - and more importantly, relevant - questions that flow from that agreement are whether or not those things ARE in the Constitution, and whether they ARE in Federal statutes (and if so, whether the Congress has the constitutional power to make such laws in the first place). I would submit that, if the answer is "no" to any of those three questions, it doesn't matter whether the results reached in Roe, Kelo, Lawrence, Kyllo etc. are good or bad for abortion, private property, gay rights or law enforcement. To consider the "value" of those rulings, rather than the constitutional questions presented, we must indeed conclude that "federal judiciary [is] a counsel of wise elders".
Posted by: Simon | Aug 5, 2005 11:27:04 AM
I happen to agree that there is good reason to think that it is a mistake to treat the federal judiciary as a counsel of wise elders.I agree entirely.
But does anybody actually admit to this view?Not in so many words. But I think there is a distinct desire - on both sides of the aisle - to envisage for the court, "a secret, super-textual constitutional role as the nation's caped crusaders—its members authorized to leap into phone booths around the world and fly back to Washington in a single bound". (See Dahlia Lithwick, Activist Legislators, 3/21/05) How else can one explain results like Kelo and Roper - or, for that matter, Griswold and Roe?
Posted by: Simon | Aug 5, 2005 11:10:19 AM
Will, you are right to tease out the two different questions; and also right that I am focusing mostly on the latter. But I would add that the latter is important to the former as a matter of abstract principle.
Suppose I raise the problem of the countermajoritarian difficulty, which is reasonable to raise even if it reduces the legislature to majoritarianism, which (as ethan points out) it is not. My answer about the proper role of the courts from a principled normative perspective (that is, putting aside the Federalist Papers, precedent, and all that other stuff, and just asking the question: why do we want courts to have the power of judicial review?) has to relate somehow to the relationship between courts and congress. How does congress react to the court, and vice versa? How do states react? How do individuals react? All of these empirical questions potentially have a lot to tell me about how the court can play a legitimate role in democratic politics. So the question of "what does the takings clause mean" is indeed separate from the question "what are the results of Roe from a pragrmatic and systemic perspective"; but the latter question relates directly to the question "what is the general role courts should play?"
Putting all of that aside, and getting to the particular empirical questions you raise. I don't know if Roe was bad for abortion rights. That's certainly counter-intuitive, and it isn't a claim I would make easily. A more defensible claim is that Roe was potentially harmful to the democratic party; or to liberalism more generally. I don't have a strong position on it (and refer you to Rosen and Wittes), but it is a legitimate question to ask. Further, since Roe itself is a tenuous argument, Rosen's argument (even if I'm not 100% sure I agree) carries more weight.
As for Kelo and SSM, I agree that the questions can't be answered definitively today. But since we actually have to consider--TODAY--how to advocate for SSM, it is a question that must be addressed head-on, based on a combination of premature data, analysis, and intuition. As for Kelo, I'm just watching history unfold before my eyes.
Posted by: Hillel Levin | Aug 5, 2005 10:52:11 AM
Well, fair enough. I happen to agree that there is good reason to think that it is a mistake to treat the federal judiciary as a counsel of wise elders. But does anybody actually admit to this view?
That is, whose arguments are you disagreeing with exactly? We all agree that the court should protect rights to abortion, same-sex marriage, and private property if they are in the constitution or federal statutes, and not if not. Right?
Then we are left with the interesting empirical questions-- was Roe bad for abortion rights, was Kelo good for private property rights, and would a ruling (what kind of a ruling, by whom, and when?) on same-sex marriage be good or bad for ssm advocates? I tend to think you are right on Roe (although there are important distributional effects there) and that the Kelo and SSM empirical questions are not ripe. Do you disagree?
Posted by: Will Baude | Aug 5, 2005 10:31:36 AM
If the equal protection clause meant what Hillel contends (and I think Will tacitly accepts for sake of argument), why the need for the 19th amendment? Or the 15th amendment, for that matter, the latter being passed a scant two years after the 14th? That's some powerful evidence right there that neither the original meaning nor the original understanding of the equal protection clause was that it extended to the franchise (IIRC, this is exactly the point that Jack Balkin has speared Nino on, vis-a-vis Bush v. Gore, and while I hate to conceed anything to Jack, in the absence of any clarification from Scalia or Thomas, I'm increasingly convinced that Balkin is right).
Worse yet, if the principle were conceded, as I indicated earlier, where would it end? What is the logical limit of the premise?
Posted by: Simon | Aug 5, 2005 10:28:13 AM
Will: the comment about abortion and Amar was an aside, not an illustrative case about principle. If my post is at too high level of abstraction otherwise, I refer you to all my previous posts about Roe, same-sex marriage, and Kelo.
Posted by: Hillel Levin | Aug 5, 2005 10:21:20 AM
I believe Amar's argument has been influenced greatly by Reva Siegel's She The People article in the Harv. L. Rev.. His new complaint is not that women can't vote for or against abortion laws today-- of course they can!-- but that we should make a special exception to the totally run-of-the-mill presumption that old statutes remain valid even if voting rules change.
For what it is worth, I think this element of the post has drawn reaction because the rest of the post is pitched at too high of a level of abstraction to do very much work. You are against "fetish"ism and "myopia". Well, yes, of course, who isn't? But you also believe courts should decide the legal claims before them on the merits. Well, good, but so do almost all of us. So until we get down to cases, it isn't clear where your political process point is going.
Posted by: Will Baude | Aug 5, 2005 10:14:28 AM
Will:
I have not yet read the chapter (the book is on its way); rather I heard it from Amar's mouth. BUT that was quite a few years ago, and I was a 1L, and it could be that I didn't entirely understand the position he was taking. My own thought is that it is more of an DP concern than a 19th Amendment issue; though I ought to read Amar's argument before saying anything further.
As for the argument that fetuses are persons affected by the law and therefore entitled to some DP or EP, as I said previously, if this is what you believe, then you argument is not that fetuses should get to vote; rather it is that you just can't kill fetuses any more than you could kill you or me. I understand that some conservatives make this argument; but certainly not the ones who merely argue that the substantive issue of abortion shall be left to states and legislatures. Amar fundamentally agrees with the conservatives so argue; he simply demands that the legislatures allow everyone to vote on the issue.
Anyway, this is mostly Amar's battle rather than mine. I'm intrigued by it and my gut reaction is that it makes sense; but I'm not married to it.
It is interesting which elements of blog posts draw reactions.
Posted by: Hillel Levin | Aug 5, 2005 10:00:11 AM
I don't know if you've read Amar's chapter in What Roe v. Wade Should Have Said yet, but it is not entirely clear from that opinion that his theory is as clear-cut as the one you suggest.
Anyway, as I understand Amar's, and therefore your, argument, the idea is this: Before women were given the constitutional right to vote, there was obviously nothing suspect about a law that was passed without women voting for it. Somehow, the 19th Amendment introduced ancillary changes, not only granting an active voting right going forward, but also invalidating certain previous laws that were not passed pursuant to the new rule. This is an intriguing argument but seems, to me, a misconception about the meaning of a Constitutional Amendment which is to keep most of the existing regime while changing it only in some listed ways, however broad.
But the bigger problem with this abortion argument is that you presuppose that the group most affected by the law is women. This has to presume that fetuses are not people in a sense that matters. The contrary view has to presume the other way. You can't resolve this question on political-participation grounds without first resolving the question of the constitutional rights of the fetus, which both sides seem reluctant to do. (But see Michael Stokes Paulsen's dissent in the upcoming book).
Posted by: Will Baude | Aug 5, 2005 9:22:45 AM
The 16-17 argument is quite strange. We need to have a bright line rule somewhere, and 18 seems just as good as anything else. Indeed, it isn't just voting that comes along with 18; there is a whole bundle of rights (and some responsibilities as well). Sure, we could have a discussion about whether it would be prudent to push the age back, but any age would be just as arbitrary as 18.
At this point, I am going to let Amar fight his own battles. But I can see little more suspect than a law that singles out women but that women have no voice in passing, particularly where, as here, women's interests and preferences plainly diverge materially in some respects from the men passing the law. I don't know what process is due if you can't vote for a law that affects you (again, putting aside plainly different issues related to children and possibly felons, etc).
One other point: the fact that most Texans back then didn't want women to vote is hardly an argument in favor of the constitutionality of the provision.
Finally, if you would all take a step back and consider the affects of Amar's rule: it would encourage democratic and participatory and majoritarian debate over political disagreements. Why isn't that the *best* thing the court could do?
Posted by: Hillel Levin | Aug 5, 2005 8:13:50 AM
"I don't think Texas can come up with a reason of any kind why women should not be permtted to vote for a law that affects them, and almost them alone."
This is too slippery. I take it that nobody in Texas believes that women should not be allowed to vote for or against abortion laws. Their claim is that women shouldn't have been allowed to vote for that law back before women were allowed to vote.
The unsupported move here is the assumption that changing the legal rules of the game (by giving women the franchise) necessarily casts automatic judicial doubt on certain results that were reached by previous rules of the game. But there's no particular reason that this would be so.
Now maybe you, unlike Amar, think that women already had the right to vote before the 19th Amendment was passed, which would make all laws passed between the ratification of the 14th and the 19th suspect in most states, but that is a far bolder claim, and one that needs to be backed up.
[I confess that I see absolutely no reason that 16- and 17- year olds ought not be allowed to vote on all laws about, say, traffic violations or the legal rights of 16- and 17- year olds.]
Posted by: Will Baude | Aug 5, 2005 7:33:53 AM
Will:
As with any due process or EP violation, the question is going to be what standard of review to apply, and whether the government had a reason good enough to meet that standard.
I don't think Texas can come up with a reason of any kind why women should not be permtted to vote for a law that affects them, and almost them alone.
By contrast, I think we can come up with lots of good reasons as to why children ought not be able to vote, even for laws that are directed at them. If you can't come up with a few reasons on your own, I suggest it is a failure of imagination.
As for felons, again, I think we can come up with a rational and legitimate government interest in the policy (even if we disagree with it, and even if we think that in practice it violates the VRA and possibly the EPC). And the same goes for foreigners.
Again, what procedure does the Constitution guarantee if it doesn't guarantee you the right to vote for laws that primarily affect you?
Why is it so radical to say that if you are going to pass a law requiring women to carry children to term, women get a chance to say something about it? Amar's rule, by the way, does just that and no more: women get a say in it, but if they lose, they lose. (I am not going to take up the issue of whether I personally believe there is an EP violation in abortion laws. I'm talking only about the reach of Amar's rule.)
Posted by: Hillel Levin | Aug 5, 2005 7:09:48 AM
Hillel writes: "Sorry to dash your hopes, but in my view there's nothing less democratic than a law that primarily impacts one group above and beyond all others but that excludes the very people it impacts most from the process by which it is passed"
This is fair enough, I suppose, but it seems to sweep rather broadly as a principle, do you mean for it to? It's obvious, I presume, that this principle that means almost all parole regulations are undemocratic where felons are excluded from voting. Presumably all laws that "primarily impact" children are all undemocratic, from the voidability of contracts to the laws forbidding child labor, as are laws like, say, the 21-year-old drinking age that were passed before 18-year-olds got the franchise.
Similarly, foreign affairs become undemocratic to the degree that they "primarily impact" people who are not voting U.S. citizens. Such activities would presumably include, not not be limited to, U.S. intervention in WWII, Kosovo, and Iraq, the lend-lease program, and all foreign aid designed to fight AIDS in Africa.
I'm sure there are more tendentious applications of your principle, but these will do. The obvious question, unfortunately unanswered, is "all right, what follows"? A great number of laws are undemocratic, including plenty of laws that "impact" people who have constitutional rights. Why on earth should it follow that such laws are procedurally invalid under the U.S. Constitution?
Posted by: Will Baude | Aug 4, 2005 10:37:35 PM
Simon: what confers legitimacy on a law, including the constitution? (Yes, it's time for another round of Paul-Tries-To-Lead-Simon-Into-The-Reductio!)
Posted by: Paul Gowder | Aug 4, 2005 10:36:52 PM
(None of this is directed specifically at Hillel - it's incidental to his post, but I think it's true none-the-less).
Here's another problem with saying that anything enacted before women's suffrage is void: defining when legislation became valid. Was it only with the passage of the 19th amendment? Is every law and constitutional amendment (and, therefore, the constitution itself) adopted before January 3rd, 1921, when the first Congress elected under both the 17th and 19th amendments convened, really void, on grounds that women were "institutionally unrepresented in the legislature"?
But wait! What does it mean to be "institutionally represented in the legislature", anyway?
Women gained the vote in the territories of Wyoming and Utah in 1869 and 1870 respectively. In 1890, Wyoming became a state, and under the terms of the U.S. Constitution, women in Wyoming could therefore vote for their U.S. Representatives, a full thirty years before the ratification of the 19th amendment. So, while it's a given that anything enacted before 1890 is void (!), is all legislation enacted between 1890 and 1920 also void - the Federal Reserve Act, for example? Antitrust laws? The entire progresive movement?
In 1893, Coloradan women gained the right to vote in U.S. House elections, joined by Utah in 1895, Idaho in 1896, Washington in 1910, California in 1911, Michigan, Kansas, Oregon and Arizona in 1912 (n1). So by the 63rd Congress (elected in fall 1912), of 435 House members, 51 were elected from states with women's suffrage. (n2) A small number, true - but some. So what about legislation originating from the 63rd Congress through to the 67th, the first to be elected under the 19th amendment? Is that legislation valid or not?
This is a preposterous standard, unworkable in practise and repugnant in principle. The constitution, and all laws made properly in pursuance of it, are valid - whether you, personally, voted for it, whether your ancestors voted for it, whether your ancestors even lived in the country when it was signed, whether someone of your race or gender voted for it, and whether you personally would vote for it today given the choice. If a constitutional amendment is proposed, and your state held a ratification referendum to bind the state legislature, and the people voted unanimously, with not a single dissenter, to reject a constitutional amendment, yet 49 other states vote for it, you are bound by that amendment. "Your honor, I was only 16 when this law was enacted, and since I was institutionally unrepresented, it does not apply to me" simply won't cut the mustard, and I fail to see how the rule of law can possibly be maintained if we start allowing conditional passes on it.
~sjd
n1. Of course, neither they - nor their male colleagues, for that matter - could vote for their Senators, so we can also say, in fact, that any law, treaty or appointment to Federal office, made before the 17th amendment (we'll leave to another time the obvious argument about whether we should take that to mean, when the first elected Senator arrived, or the last unelected Senator left) are also void, by reason of being poisoned at the source. The people were "institutionally unrepresented" in the Senate, and therefore, they cannot be considered bound by its actions. The people were (and are) "institutionally unrepresented" in the Federal Judiciary...But let's not even go there. With a blinding flash of political correctness, we have eliminated the first century of our nation's legislative and legal history.
n2. Specifically: Arizona 1, California 11, Colorado 4, Idaho 2, Kansas 8, Michigan 14, Oregon 3, Utah 2, Washington 5, and wyoming 1). See Wikipedia.
Posted by: Simon | Aug 4, 2005 10:02:39 PM
1. Your unborn children argument is a nice move, but the number of people who believe equal protection and due process apply to unborn children is exceedingly low. In any event, you are assuming the answer to the abortion question. Once you do that, there's no need to make any due process arguments. If you are committed to the position that unborn children are people deserving of all rights (including the right to vote, apparently), then that's pretty much your argument right there.
2. I simply don't understand your argument about "substance." A law that applies primarily to women but that women had no legal say in is deeply undemocratic--procedurally. It makes "no taxation without representation" look like child's play. The problem is with the procedure by which the law that affects primarily women is passed. That's procedural due process. As for whether it is also an EP violation, I leave that up to you.
3. I didn't suggest that *any* law passed before suffrage is unconstitutional; I suggested that law that applies directly to women, almost to the exculusion of all others, before women had the right to vote is unconstitutional.
4. As for the 14th Amendment and the rest of the Constitution, it is difficult to imagine that the Constitution is unconstitutional. One might think it is unjust (and therefore should be trashed) because various groups had no say in it; but anyone can see the difference between a law passed under the constitution being violative of due process and the Constitution itself for violating the constitutional due process provision.
If the due process provision means anything, it means that people get a say in the laws that affect them most personally.
(And yes, there are obvious exceptions. But those exception apply when there is a good reason to exclude someone from voting; or when there is ample reason to believe that someone else has equal interest in the law such that the excluded persons' interests are adequately taken into account. I have in mind, of course, children.)
Posted by: Hillel Levin | Aug 4, 2005 9:37:18 PM
[I]n my view there's nothing less democratic than a law that primarily impacts one group above and beyond all others but that excludes the very people it impacts most from the process by which it is passed.If that is the case, then surely, a fortiori, any law permitting abortion is equally invalid? The one group above and beyond all others which is affected by abortion is unborn children - and the last time I checked, they couldn't vote!
I certainly agree that there is a substantive (important word choice) "difference between a law pronouncing freedom of speech for all and a law prohibiting women from owning property" - but, of course, that necessarily would make is a substantive due process challenge, and I don't believe in substantive due process! Fortunately, in this example, it doesn't matter, because it would be an equal protection violation.
Of course women should have the vote - but that doesn't mean that any law passed before they did is void, simply because if it were, there would be no 14th amendment to bring the challenge under, and no article III courts to bring the challenge in! ;)
Posted by: Simon | Aug 4, 2005 8:24:37 PM
Sorry to dash your hopes, but in my view there's nothing less democratic than a law that primarily impacts one group above and beyond all others but that excludes the very people it impacts most from the process by which it is passed. Surely there is appreciable difference between a law pronouncing freedom of speech for all and a law prohibiting women from owning property. In both cases, of course, women should be included in the vote; but there's a material difference between the former and the latter when women are excluded. I'm not much of a fan of "substantive due process" arguments, but well, this is plain vanilla procedural due process: a law that, for no good reason, prevents a group from voting on a law that affects that group most of all.
Posted by: Hillel Levin | Aug 4, 2005 7:54:31 PM
Akhil Amar believes that the law at issue in Roe should have been struck down because it was passed before women could vote, and thus they were institutionally unrepresented in the legislature. I agree.This is a profoundly silly view. Women were not represented in the philadelphia convention, nor the subsequent ratification conventions. Is the constitution therefore void? Nor were they represented in either the United States Congress or the state legislatures at the time of the proposal and ratification of the Bill of Rights. Is the bill of rights void because women were "institutionally unrepresented" in its passage? Not one woman - or black person of either gender, for that matter - voted for the thirteenth or fourteenth amendment. Does incorporation thus fall, equal protection thus fall, due process requirements for the states thus fall?
Of course, when you think about it, while no women voted for the Constitution or any amendment prior to the 19th, only a tiny subset of the men who lived at the time voted for the Constitution or any of its amendments, either, direcly or indirectly.
Even well into the twentieth century, women were a tiny minority in Congress, and today constitute far less than half the members of that body. When the Civil Rights Act was passed, for example, there were thirteen women in the United States House of Representatives (n1) out of 435 members, and two women Senators (n2). Is that act void, or is fifteen enough? How many women must be in a legislature before women, as a subset of the population, are "institutionally represented in the legislature"? Is one enough? Surely not, because how can one claim to be represented by a minority so small that it can be dismissed at will. Is only a majority sufficient? In which case, all acts of Congress passed today are also void. Or, is there some other, arbitrary number between one and a majority at which we can say women are now "institutionally represented in the legislature"? From whence is that number derived, in which Congress was it first achieved, and what should become of the validity of those acts passed in any Congress during which an insufficient number of women are elected by those pesky voters?
I hope your agreement is more rhetorical than factual.
~sjd
n1. They were: Irene Bailey Baker (R), Iris Faircloth Blitch (D), Frances Payne Bolton (R), Vera Daerr Buchanan (D), Florence Price Dwyer (R), Edith Starrett Green (D), Martha Wright Griffiths (D), Maude Elizabeth Kee (D), Edna Flannery Kelly (D), Catherine Dean May (R), Charlotte Thompson Reid (R), Katharine Price Collier St. George (R), and Leonor Kretzer Sullivan (D). See Women in Congress.
n2. They were Margaret Chase Smith (R-Maine) and Maurine Brown Neuberger (D-Oregon). See Women in the Senate.
Posted by: Simon | Aug 4, 2005 7:33:17 PM
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