Monday, October 17, 2016
Law School Hiring, 2016-2017, Thread Two
Please leave comments on this thread regarding whether you have received:
(a) a callback from a law school and/or accepted it; or
(b) an offer from a law school and/or accepted it; feel free to also leave details about the offer, including teaching load, research leave, etc. A school listed as "offer accepted" may have made more than one offer and may still have some slots open.
Five miscellaneous things:
1. If you don't want your contact information displayed, enter firstname.lastname@example.org or something like that as an email address.
2. There is a separate thread, "A Clearinghouse for Questions," for general questions or comments about the teaching market. Please do not use the thread below for general questions or comments.
4. The year's first hiring thread is here. Comments to that thread are now closed.
5. If you would like to enter the information on a spreadsheet, the spreadsheet is available here:
You can also add your information to the spreadsheet via this Google form, which was created by someone on the market this year.
Here is a link to the last page of comments.
Originally posted October 17, 2016.
Received a callback at 5:20 p.m. Saturday from a lower-ranked (i.e. not T100) school. (I am uncomfortable providing the school's name at this point.) Received an email Sunday morning from Georgetown, apparently sent to all interviewees, indicating that it intends to make its first-round callback decisions in 2 weeks or so and that it will let everyone know where they stand at that point. (Kudos to Georgetown for being so transparent about its process!) Haven't yet heard anything from the other two schools with which I interviewed.
Posted by: anon | Oct 17, 2016 12:25:16 PM
I'm surprised there are no reports of callbacks so far. I figured that a number of schools must have made their callback decisions already. I know of at least one T30 school that was at AALS that has made callbacks at this point. Anyone else hear about other schools making callbacks?
Posted by: wannabe | Oct 18, 2016 11:42:14 AM
Has anyone heard from Tennessee?
Posted by: anon | Oct 18, 2016 12:02:38 PM
Probably because people are paranoid about being identifying. But it is not really - people in fellows programs talk and it is not necessarily the candidate that posts the callback. Plus I think these committees are too busy to even care what people post or not post. It's not like some law faculty is going to say - he is the best candidate but it is possible he posted his callback on a blog so we are not doing to hire him. Sad that some people feel that happens but I doubt it does.
Posted by: anon | Oct 18, 2016 1:19:57 PM
I wonder if should are moving a bit slower because they are considering laterals more than usual? While I know candidates may be afraid to post, there is usually second info from other fellows, alums, and like.
Posted by: anon | Oct 18, 2016 2:29:47 PM
Got an email from a dean who attended AALS saying how nice it was to meet me, that the chair of appointments would be my point person going forward, and that I should get in touch with him if I have any questions. No formal invitation of a call-back though. Not comfortable revealing the name. Do I assume that this indicates a likely invitation once formalities are taken care of on their end?
Posted by: Anon | Oct 18, 2016 2:30:51 PM
Maybe they are still deciding. There is a lot to read, and the conference was only a few days ago.
Posted by: anon | Oct 18, 2016 2:36:16 PM
I know a number of schools did Skype or video chat interviews instead of attend AALS this year. Did anyone who had such a virtual interview receive a callback yet? It seems like the timing of those callbacks can vary a bit from the normal AALS schedule.
Posted by: skype.interview.anon | Oct 18, 2016 3:09:43 PM
Illinois sent me a rejection email and said they deiced to bring other candidates for a campus visit.
Posted by: anon | Oct 18, 2016 3:11:50 PM
Callback from T100 on Saturday afternoon.
Posted by: anon | Oct 18, 2016 3:33:08 PM
I got similar emails from 2 schools.
Posted by: anon | Oct 18, 2016 3:46:17 PM
Rejection from Irvine
Posted by: 3NT | Oct 18, 2016 4:35:52 PM
Rejection from Rutgers
Posted by: anon | Oct 18, 2016 4:47:13 PM
I had around 15 interviews, and I still have no call backs. Is it time to find a new career path?
Posted by: feelingpessimistic | Oct 18, 2016 4:54:38 PM
I have had the experience of doing lateral screening interviews via Skype. I must say, one thing that stunned me from my prior experience with lateral screening (non-AALS) interviews is that some schools simply never get back in touch with you. Given that lateral applications take more work and involve some amount of risk on the applicant's part (e.g. risk that their current colleagues will hear about their application), it seems like the least a committee can do is tell a lateral where they stand after an interview. Failure to get back in touch after a lateral screening interview is alienating and can have a negative impact on a school's reputation in the mind of the lateral candidate. It is worth keeping in mind that many of these lateral applicants may be voting in US News and World Report surveys at some point.
Posted by: Lateral | Oct 18, 2016 4:59:20 PM
Iowa, Duquesne, and Penn State Dickinson.
Posted by: Anon | Oct 18, 2016 5:03:25 PM
I had 13 interviews, but still no callbacks. And, for what it's worth, I felt that many of the interviews went quite well. I did get two (generic) emails from T20 schools, each saying that the hiring committee would be discussing things over the next week or two, and would then get in touch when they've made decisions.
Posted by: Candidate | Oct 18, 2016 5:08:22 PM
It's Tuesday, people. A little early to be planning a new career. As hard as it is, you're going to have to be more patient than that.
Posted by: Anon | Oct 18, 2016 5:09:02 PM
Posted by: anon | Oct 18, 2016 5:27:13 PM
To Lateral: this process takes a very thick skin. I have had actual callback interviews and never heard back - literally traveled hundreds of miles out of my time, go out to dinner and everything and then never heard anything ever. Some schools are just like that and it is embarrassing actually how many do not have the decency to just write a simple email declining the candidate. Since this has happened to me multiple times I wondered if it had something to do with me but I asked people and they said often HR gets involved and prevents these things. Other times, I think they just do not want to expressly reject you so as to keep their options open.
But if you go through this process this will happen alot. I would be shocked if anyone with more than 10 interviews heard from all 10. Indeed, I wouldn't be surprised if many applicants never hear anything ever from schools they interviewed with at FAR.
Posted by: anon | Oct 18, 2016 5:31:48 PM
One reason schools might be silent right now (it's the case with my school) is that everyone who has been extended a callback interview hasn't accepted yet. Thus, we are giving it a little time (it's only been two days) to see if we have to callback an alternate before we send out updates to those we met with. I know this is a stressful process and the stakes are high, but I would expect more information will be coming in later in the week.
Posted by: AnonHiringChair | Oct 18, 2016 5:42:42 PM
How many callbacks does one need to have to have a reasonable shot at an offer? I have heard 3:1, but I also heard that about a ratio of screeners to callbacks. That definitely does NOT seem to be playing out in my case as someone who was fortunate to have interviews numbering in the high teens. Any thoughts from people with very recent experience (i.e. last year or the year before)?
Posted by: anon | Oct 19, 2016 9:00:18 AM
People. It hasn't been a week since the conference wrapped up. Calm down.
Posted by: anon | Oct 19, 2016 9:11:03 AM
I was on the market last year. I had about a dozen interviews, only one callback, and turned that callback into an offer at a terrific school that I am very happy at. That school was also my favorite that I met with at the FRC. So, it only takes one :)
Posted by: anon | Oct 19, 2016 10:21:33 AM
It's funny how schools ask candidates to be honest about their intentions and ask that we don't string them along. Yet, these same schools don't have the decency to notify candidates of their status or send rejection letters. I know that it's still very early in the process, but I want to flag this issue in hopes that schools begin to extend the same courtesies that they would like extended to them. If schools don't want candidates to use them as practice callbacks or otherwise be less than candor, they should extend be courteous to the candidates as well.
Posted by: anon | Oct 19, 2016 11:57:22 AM
FWIW, I was told that about 146 people RSVP'ed for the conference, and number actual number of attendees is always substantially lower than those who RSVP'ed. I think there were only around 80-90 serious candidates in the FAR to begin with, and I believe there were around 86 schools, and well over a 100 positions (I can't remember the number).
My prediction is that several schools will go after the same few candidates. In the pursuit of these few, they will inevitably lose some great candidates that they pushed to the second string. This happens every year, but I think it will be especially pronounced this year because some lower tier schools probably still think that it's strategic to go after Supreme Court clerks and people w/ 5 Harvard Law Review articles. But, not everyone can marry the homecoming queen. I think a good portion of schools will have to circle back and some may be left scrambling. The intense recruiting of laterals this year may have some impact on this, but it's unclear how much. So, while it still feels like a buyers' market, that may shift sometime during this cycle.
This is all speculation, of course. But, the number of candidates in attendance and the number of schools in attendance suggests that the market is better for candidates than it has been in some time.
Posted by: funandspeculation | Oct 19, 2016 12:21:50 PM
Given speculation above that a number of schools might come up short on their preferred candidates, is there a functional way to signal that one retains interest late into the season, i.e. as a candidate willing to accept a late in season invitation?
Posted by: Anon | Oct 19, 2016 4:02:58 PM
Five interviews and two callbacks so far. I was somewhat despairing at the number of interviews going in, but turns out my conversion rate was pretty good!
Posted by: anon | Oct 19, 2016 4:13:53 PM
to "Five interviews and two callbacks so far. I was somewhat despairing at the number of interviews going in, but turns out my conversion rate was pretty good!" Congrats, but would be nicer if you say who gave you a call back otherwise no one cares... DB!
Posted by: anon | Oct 19, 2016 4:43:20 PM
Can people calm down with their overly aggressive and entitled demands for specific information about callbacks ala 4:43? You're not our supervisor! Jesus.
Posted by: Sheryl/Carol/Carina | Oct 19, 2016 5:10:14 PM
I certainly agree with the last comment that nobody should feel entitled to anyone's callback information.
That said, I am interested in the broader question of why so few callbacks have been reported. Unless I am miscounting, only one callback has been reported on the spreadsheet, three other specific schools were reported in the comment thread (all by the same person), and two people reported schools in a non-specific way (i.e., "a top 100"). Finally, one person just reported "two callbacks" without giving any further information.
At this point last year, nine specific callbacks had been reported on the sheet (I didn't look back at last year's comments, but its probable more were reported there was well). Unless we think schools are moving unusually slow this year (which doesn't seem likely, but let me know if you think otherwise), why has there been such a drastic drop off in reporting? Any theories? Did someone lose a job over this last year?
Posted by: Why | Oct 19, 2016 5:57:46 PM
I believe the last comment was an Archer reference, not a genuine grievance. But one never knows.
It does, however, raise an important point --- information about call backs etc. is significantly more valuable (only valuable?) if it comes with info about the school. If you don't want it traced to you, perhaps report the school info as "I have heard of call backs at X school"? In fact, I propose that ALL reporting should be of this form, to anonymize reporting across the board. I see no drawbacks to that system, and it would seem to rectify an important distortion in the public info to date.
Posted by: 3NT | Oct 19, 2016 6:03:31 PM
I have heard of callbacks from South Carolina (though I don't think they're done), Iowa, Texas A&M, and Northern Illinois. Have heard of rejections from Tennessee and Alabama. Most but not all of these were clinic.
Posted by: Anon | Oct 19, 2016 7:00:05 PM
Probably bc of the lateral market. Some schools might not be thrilled with their candidates and think they can do better laterally.
Posted by: Anon | Oct 19, 2016 7:02:06 PM
I've heard of callbacks at Florida and Alabama.
Posted by: Anon | Oct 19, 2016 7:15:29 PM
I've heard of callbacks at Pittsburgh.
Posted by: anon | Oct 20, 2016 10:20:04 AM
I've heard of callbacks at FSU.
Posted by: Anon | Oct 20, 2016 10:46:39 AM
Tennessee has made callbacks.
Posted by: Anon | Oct 20, 2016 10:55:18 AM
Wayne State has made callbacks.
Posted by: anon | Oct 20, 2016 11:13:57 AM
Anyone heard from Colorado?
Posted by: anon | Oct 20, 2016 11:52:53 AM
Anyone heard from Washburn?
Posted by: anon | Oct 20, 2016 12:09:19 PM
Anon 10:55:18 AM: Do you know if the Tennessee callbacks were clinical or business? Yesterday's anon 7:00:05 PM poster mentioned Tennessee rejections, and it sounded like those may have been for the clinical position. I'm trying to figure out whether Tennessee is dealing with both positions simultaneously or is handling the clinical position first.
Posted by: anon | Oct 20, 2016 12:33:30 PM
Has anyone heard about callbacks at Chicago, Northwestern, or Loyola Chicago?
Posted by: anon | Oct 20, 2016 12:34:49 PM
I've heard Tennessee has sent out rejection emails for the business position.
Posted by: Anon | Oct 20, 2016 12:38:08 PM
I've heard of callbacks from Miami and Duquesne.
Posted by: Anon5555 | Oct 20, 2016 12:59:41 PM
Heard of a Brooklyn call
Posted by: 3NT | Oct 20, 2016 1:05:27 PM
I just want to encourage people to keep sharing callback info. Not only is this info great data for us, this info is going to be great data for future candidates.
I reviewed the past spreadsheets to get a sense of when particular schools issue callback requests, and schools seem to be generally consistent about when they issue their callback offers. I'm guessing that internal processes, and committee structures etc. are probably consistent from year to year. It's imperfect data, but it's much better than nothing.
A very ambitious researcher may be able to do some interesting analysis about individual schools, historical trends, when you in the danger zone, etc.
Posted by: funwithdata | Oct 20, 2016 1:15:21 PM
@Anon5555 - do you know what subjects for Miami and Duquesne?
Posted by: anon | Oct 20, 2016 1:20:19 PM
I've heard Iowa has sent out rejection emails.
Posted by: anon | Oct 20, 2016 1:23:11 PM
I've heard of a Seton Hall clinical callback.
Posted by: anon | Oct 20, 2016 2:31:59 PM
I heard New Mexico cancelled their position.
Posted by: Anon | Oct 20, 2016 3:52:32 PM
I've heard callbacks you people wouldn't believe. Callbacks from attack ships on fire off the shoulder of the Ward Parkmen. I've seen callbacks gleam in the moonlight by the Leiterhausergate...
Posted by: anon | Oct 20, 2016 4:01:12 PM
Well, the callback rate is a disaster. It's a humanitarian nightmare. But it has fallen from any standpoint. I mean, what do you need, a signed document? Take a look at the meat market. It is so sad when you see what's happened. And a lot of this is because of....
Posted by: anon | Oct 20, 2016 4:16:46 PM
So curious ... how did this sentence finish: "Take a look at the meat market. It is so sad when you see what's happened. And a lot of this is because of...."
Posted by: Anon | Oct 20, 2016 6:06:07 PM
Has anyone heard from Hong Kong?
Posted by: Anon Anon | Oct 20, 2016 6:06:35 PM
I understand Richmond has sent out dings.
Posted by: anon | Oct 20, 2016 6:36:42 PM
I did a screening interview with a school. I haven't heard anything from since. Then I got an email from said school asking me to resubmit my application materials formally through their HR website. Does this mean that they may be getting approval from HR for the candidates that they want to callback? Or do some schools just make all their interviewees go through such a process, even after they've finished the interview process, regardless of whether they intend to offer them a callback?
Posted by: anony | Oct 20, 2016 10:38:36 PM
Some schools want all candidates to fill out HR paperwork so that they can tell the system that we interviewed so many minorities, women, disabled, etc. In my past AALS attempts, I've received such HR forms months after the AALS interview.
Posted by: anon | Oct 21, 2016 2:19:01 AM
I understand filling out EEOC forms after interviews. We've all gotten that stuff. But filling out a long, formal application (uploading references, adding CV, research agenda, job talk, and teaching philosophy), and filing out lots of biographical info?
Posted by: anony | Oct 21, 2016 6:05:01 AM
I've heard that NYU Lawyering has sent out callbacks.
Posted by: anon | Oct 21, 2016 11:34:37 AM