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Wednesday, August 05, 2015

Submission angsting: Fall 2015

Well, given that the Christmas and Chanukah decorations and the Winter Starbucks flavors now kick in just after Halloween, I suppose it's no surprise that early August is already a bit late for the traditional Prawfs Fall submissions angsting thread.  

Keep your eyes open for the Great Bird and . . . let the wild rumpus start!  Or, in the more helpful words of our own Howard Wasserman and Danny Markel:

So let the angsting commence.

If you are an author or law review editor and want to share information about your submission experience to the law reviews, this is the place to do it. If you have questions about the process, this is the place to do it. Feel free to use the comments to share your information (and gripes or praise) about which journals you have heard from, which you have not, etc. Have at it. And do it reasonably nicely, pretty please.

Posted by Rick Garnett on August 5, 2015 at 09:19 AM in Rick Garnett | Permalink


Stealth dings from Penn & Hawai'i. Duke ding indicating full volume with resumed submission review in 2016.

Posted by: anon | Aug 14, 2015 1:47:39 PM

anon at Aug 14, 2015 1:29:22 PM. You asked "[h]ow often do the T25 law reviews actually select an article based on actual merit, as opposed to the professor's reputation/school and expedite history" or from a "a no-name prof or practitioner with no publication history [but who] wrote a brilliant and thorough article"? I don't know "how often" this happens, but in my field one of the top 3 flagship published an article from a practicing attorney two years ago. Penn L. Rev. published a article by a prof at a 3rd or 4th tier law school. I would say publications of this sort in the top 10 journals are infrequent, but not unheard of. Although there are so few spots there, the fact that it happens from time to time is worth noting. As for top 25 or 30 journals, I regularly see them publish article by professors at 3rd and 4th tier law schools.

Is this to say that these schools are not biased toward certain CVs and profs at certain schools? No. I am always blown away by how my students (at a non-top 75 school) get geeked out over submissions by profs from T14 or even T25 schools who have written terrible articles. They do not, however, necessarily wind up extending them offers. They just look at the articles a bit harder before saying no.

What I am saying is that merit does matter. It is just that it does not matter as much as we might like and sometimes it is misjudged.

Posted by: anon | Aug 14, 2015 2:35:38 PM

No sense of how this season seems compared to past falls. Better than last year?

Posted by: IP Anon | Aug 14, 2015 2:59:18 PM

I applied to the T50 law reviews and top 10 specialty journals in my field. Have received offers from eight of the specialty journals but CRICKETS from all but three law reviews (dings).

Posted by: anon | Aug 14, 2015 3:01:35 PM

This season feels quieter than last August. I have the same number of offers as this time last year (one), but fewer rejections (two vs. six).

Posted by: Business Gal | Aug 14, 2015 3:05:11 PM

Anon 3:01 - 8 offers is a fantastic yield. What field?

Posted by: Prince Aladding | Aug 14, 2015 3:31:16 PM

IP. Just frustrating that I can't seem to get a single LR offer! (I'm a VAP, so I am pretty eager to get good placement this round).

Posted by: anon | Aug 14, 2015 3:33:50 PM

I've received an offer from a not so-well ranked law review (below T200) and now I've just received an offer from a not wonderfully ranked specialty journal, but connected to a really good Law School, whose flagship review is in T30. Which one seems more interesting if I don't get any better offer until deadline? Thoughts? Thank you.

Posted by: elvispresley | Aug 14, 2015 3:52:52 PM

specialty top 30 elvis in my view

Posted by: anon prof | Aug 14, 2015 3:58:09 PM

A review has had my article for over a month now with no communication and a lot of people are starting to get dings. Should I contact them to make sure it hasn't been lost in the shuffle? Or just sit back and trust the process? Thanks for the advice.

Posted by: YesterdayIKilledaMammoth | Aug 14, 2015 4:09:10 PM

Just got another top 5 specialty journal offer that will extend the deadline long enough for the top 40 journal to complete its full board review. Phew!

Posted by: GEL | Aug 14, 2015 4:41:16 PM

YesterdayIKilledaMammoth: I'd neither contact them nor trust the process myself.

Posted by: Anonymoose | Aug 14, 2015 4:42:21 PM

Anonymoose: Perhaps the wisest words spoken on this thread.

Posted by: YesterdayIKilledaMammoth | Aug 14, 2015 4:53:51 PM

Any chance that we will hear from journals over the weekend?

Posted by: New prof | Aug 14, 2015 10:36:26 PM

YesterdayIKilledaMammoth: To put it bluntly, it can mean (a) that your piece is still under consideration; or (b) that they didn't even bother to click on it, which could be a prerequisite for rejecting it.

It's all really random.

Posted by: Prince Aladding | Aug 15, 2015 2:39:04 AM

UVA ding off expedite

Posted by: Guest | Aug 15, 2015 10:54:46 AM

Funny story on submitting in fall v. spring. I submitted an article last fall, somewhat late in the season (mid Sept.), got an offer from a top 40 journal, but almost no one else was reading at that point, so I decided (somewhat guiltily, because I don't submit to journals I wouldn't publish in) not to accept the offer and try again in the spring. I submitted with a different title nice and early in the spring, wound up got nothing but a few dings, until the very same journal (of course with a different board) made me an offer which I happily accepted. Of my t-14 publications, by the way, one was in the spring and two in the fall, although I know at least 3 people that have gotten nothing in the fall then wound up at U.Mich. in the spring. So I think the scholastica analysis of the data is right--it's pretty much a crapshoot (except maybe at UMich!).

Posted by: midlevelprof | Aug 15, 2015 12:09:58 PM

Im approaching 30k words on my draft. I will be under but just barely. Should I be concerned that law review editors will disfavor my article because of its length? Ive read the LR word policies but I'm curious to see if anyone has thoughts about how this plays out in practice.

Posted by: Wordy | Aug 15, 2015 2:34:10 PM

Getting ready to submit this week and noticed on Expresso that many of the T100 are listed as closed. Have they just not opened yet or did the open earlier in August and have now filled?

Posted by: Anonymouse | Aug 15, 2015 2:42:28 PM

Anonymouse: Check out whether these same journals are listed as closed on Scholastica. My hunch is that these journals switched from Expresso to Scholastica but they are still listed on the former (just as "closed").

Posted by: Scholastica | Aug 15, 2015 2:47:47 PM

Virginia rejection (8/8 submission, expedited from top specialty on 8/13).

Posted by: Business Gal | Aug 15, 2015 3:17:27 PM

When I was on law review (about a decade ago), we called professors on the phone to make offers. Of course, this was before smartphones were widespread. Does this still happen, or do all offers come via email?

Posted by: anon | Aug 15, 2015 3:34:58 PM

Wordy-I don't think that 30k words will be a problem. Just look at the lengths of articles that are published in the T50 law reviews. They routinely exceed the word-count "limits."

Posted by: anon | Aug 15, 2015 3:36:06 PM

I always have been informed via email, with a subject line that is typically "Offer to Publish." If the subject line is something like "Decision Regarding Your Article," I assume it is a ding.

Posted by: Prof | Aug 15, 2015 7:31:51 PM

I've received a really good offer from a specialty journal (T5), after having received one from a flagship law review (below T200) and another specialty journal (T10).

Some dings, especially from T40 reviews. My question: wouldn't be best to already ask the T40 reviews to expedite? People say that the best strategy is to wait until I get a better offer before expediting the top reviews (above T40).

But they have my Article for about one week and don't have any idea that I have already some offers and one from a very good school, and this might help...

Or better wait??

This system is crazy. I'm used to peer review. But I like it, anyway. At least we get an offer fast...

Posted by: elvispresley | Aug 16, 2015 9:18:45 AM

@ elvispresley: I'd expedite a top 5 specialty all the way, except maybe Yale, Harvard, Stanford since they have idiosyncratic processes. It's good enough that no one should scoff at it.

Posted by: Business Gal | Aug 16, 2015 9:25:07 AM

Elvispresley: did you include your dings in the spreadsheet or report? My inbox has been empty for the last 24 hours, so I'm dying to hear what others are hearing.

Posted by: Business Gal | Aug 16, 2015 9:26:19 AM

Business Gal: Yes, today ding from Cornell. Yesterday, ding from Michigan and Stanford. Silence from the others... My concern: Some T40 reviews are already reviewing Articles and I'm waiting for a better offer before expediting T40. Maybe it would be best to already tell them I have a good specialty journal offer... No idea here...

Posted by: elvispresley | Aug 16, 2015 9:43:02 AM

I don't see any downside to expediting all the way up. As a general matter, the argument that "a T14 journal won't pay attention to a T150 expedite" seems flawed for a few reasons, one of which is that in the current state of affairs, most of the T14 journals won't pay attention in the absence of an expedite anyway. Expedites help organize the pile, and it seems they do so based on date (earlier dates coming first) rather than on "quality" of existing offer.

Now it's certainly so that a higher-ranked journal could organize itself to read articles expedited from higher journals than from lower ones. But I didn't operate that way when I was on a journal, and I haven't ever heard an AE on this thread say they operated that way either.

Posted by: Guest | Aug 16, 2015 9:48:32 AM

I expedited a top specialty that would be equivalent to what you have all the way, except to HYS. To be sure, editors have had you paper for a while and are reading it, but letting them know that editors at a top 5 school liked your article would serve as confirmation that you article is good and that they should keep reading.

The downside of not expediting is that you don't get another offer during whatever deadline you have. A top 40 might be reading your paper and be under the impression that you don't need a decision any time soon. And so, while they are interested, without knowing about time pressure, the would wait until it's too late to make you an offer.

That's my $.0.02. Perhaps others will chime in.

Posted by: Business Gal | Aug 16, 2015 9:53:07 AM

Guest: That's my point. I also think they organize the piles as you say. So... why not? And my deadline is quite good: almost two weeks from now...

Posted by: elvispresley | Aug 16, 2015 9:53:15 AM

Have received dings in the past 48 hrs from Wisconsin, Columbia, Stanford, and Michigan (impressively, the Michigan ding was sent at about 3 am!). Offers from eight specialty journals, the best of which expires on Wed. Silence on the other LR expedites.

Posted by: New IP prof | Aug 16, 2015 9:55:39 AM

Northwestern ding

Posted by: Guest | Aug 16, 2015 11:19:03 AM

Northwestern and Texas dings this morning.

Posted by: New IP prof | Aug 16, 2015 11:46:53 AM

Northwestern ding

Posted by: hathat | Aug 16, 2015 12:37:52 PM

Did you include these dings in the spreadsheet? When did you send the articles? No dings here from Northwestern nor Texas by now. I sent on 8/8. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1KuUwCtpf58CYx1TWai1abjYfVklNt0PrXIfPQjSYNm4/edit?usp=sharing

Posted by: elvispresley | Aug 16, 2015 1:06:33 PM

Sent to NW 7/27. Was off expedite

Posted by: Guest | Aug 16, 2015 1:38:25 PM

Seems like most authors submitting expedites here are doing so off of offers from specialty journals. Has anyone landed a T75 general law review offer yet without an expedite?

Posted by: Anonymoose | Aug 16, 2015 2:43:20 PM

@Anonymoose: Last August, I got an offer without an expedite from Cardozo. I'm still waiting for my first general law review offer of any sort this year.

Posted by: Business Gal | Aug 16, 2015 3:17:18 PM

I also think that it depends on your area of focus. The general law reviews simply are more likely to publish a stemwinder on the constitutional theories of habeas than an article about a newly discovered trend in tax law.

Posted by: New IP prof | Aug 16, 2015 3:20:43 PM

New IP prof: I hope you're right. I've got a constitutional law article out this cycle. So far it hasn't gotten a lot of love.

Posted by: YesterdayIKilledaMammoth | Aug 16, 2015 4:13:30 PM

Moose - My first two offers were from general LRs in the 70s and 80s that I received within a few hrs of each other. Currently expediting off of both. Haven't submitted to any specialties this cycle.

Posted by: Guest | Aug 16, 2015 4:15:30 PM

Tenured Prof: Any updates? We're waiting to hear with baited breath! ;)

Posted by: Guest | Aug 16, 2015 4:19:10 PM

Just as a cautionary note: I learned today that there is such a thing as a "stealth offer." I logged on to Expresso for the first time in about five days, and saw that I have an offer from a pretty good specialty journal. I checked my inbox and spam folder, and I had not received an email from this journal. I sent an awkward email to the journal. The head articles editor sent an apologetic note - my article had, indeed, been accepted, but there was some sort of glitch with Expresso that he had not followed up on.

Not that it makes a big difference to me - I had already received an offer from a better journal. But it's a reminder to check Expresso/Scholastica, and not rely on email.

Posted by: anon | Aug 16, 2015 8:21:59 PM

Hi any sense of whether Expresso has a delay or glitch in updated the table sowing your submissions? I submitted 8 hours ago and despite receiving confirmation emails from Expresso the table just says no data. There is a message that says if you recently submitted and do not see a journal listed refresh page but that has been there all day. Anyone else experience this?

Posted by: Anonymouse | Aug 16, 2015 9:02:46 PM

I would love some advice. I submitted 8/4 - 8/6 to roughly T-10 - T-50 (whatever was open) and to most of the crim journals. Almost two weeks later, I have 5 rejections and have heard nothing from the 32 other journals. I thought by now, I would have at least had an offer from a low ranked specialty. Should I submit to more, lower ranked journals in order to expedite or just hang tight. My rejections are W&M, Notre Dame, Duke, and Wisconsin so still haven't heard from a lot of journals that seem to be active based on this thread. I wonder whether without an expedite request, the top generals just won't take a look? Thoughts? And thanks for facilitating my angsting!

Posted by: anonanon | Aug 16, 2015 11:33:51 PM

Anonanon: the whole specialties cycle is a mystery. I've heard both that specialties start earlier so they can grab articles without being used for expediting up; but i also heard that they take more time for various reasons.

Posted by: Prince Aladding | Aug 17, 2015 12:22:11 AM

Finally, good news. Offer from a t14 that's been rejecting articles.

Posted by: Business Gal | Aug 17, 2015 4:22:38 AM

3 days till expedite ends (T100 offer). Few rejections, much silence, no new offers. Darn.

Posted by: miso | Aug 17, 2015 10:29:44 AM

Michigan ding. Submitted 8/8, after expedite. I added it to the spreadsheet.

Posted by: anon | Aug 17, 2015 10:38:06 AM

Yale ding (in spreadsheet).

Posted by: anon | Aug 17, 2015 10:57:41 AM

Hi posting again to see if anyone else has run into glitch of no journals appearing on Expresso's table (the one you use to expedite or withdraw). Have contacted their support email but no response and so no way of knowing if journals received article and no way to later expedite or withdraw).

Posted by: Anonymouse | Aug 17, 2015 11:04:20 AM

Anonymouse: I have the same problem. On the bright side, at least I can blame something other than my bad writing if the piece does not get picked up.

Posted by: anewanon | Aug 17, 2015 2:07:17 PM

My expedite expires at midnight. I still have yet to hear from about half of the law reviews. Should I expect not to hear anything more? Or are there a lot of decisions in the hours before/after the deadline?

Posted by: New IP prof | Aug 17, 2015 2:19:00 PM

New IP prof - no one knows... I once got an offer from Harv. L. & Tech. two hours before the end of my expedite. Once, I got an offer a day after the expedite from a t30 Law Review (which I had to turn down). But in most cases, I heard nothing at the final day... Good luck!

Posted by: ty | Aug 17, 2015 2:29:57 PM

I also generally don't hear from schools at the last minute, unfortunately. I have an expedite expiring soon and haven't heard from Stanford, Northwestern, Georgetown, and a bunch of other t40 schools. While it appears that some others have heard from these schools, I don't view that as a particularly good sign. In my experience you won't always hear from schools that others hear from.

Posted by: anon | Aug 17, 2015 4:24:44 PM

Thanks anewanon. I got a hold of Expresso and they are looking into the problem -- it impacts any deliveries made Sunday morning.

Posted by: Anonymouse | Aug 17, 2015 4:56:20 PM

Stanford ding overnight. Had submitted on June 30.

Posted by: Anonymoo | Aug 18, 2015 9:22:08 AM

Fordham ding

Posted by: Guest | Aug 18, 2015 11:04:18 AM

UC Davis (which opened yesterday) and W&M dings

Posted by: Guest | Aug 18, 2015 1:22:59 PM

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