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Wednesday, August 05, 2015

Submission angsting: Fall 2015

Well, given that the Christmas and Chanukah decorations and the Winter Starbucks flavors now kick in just after Halloween, I suppose it's no surprise that early August is already a bit late for the traditional Prawfs Fall submissions angsting thread.  

Keep your eyes open for the Great Bird and . . . let the wild rumpus start!  Or, in the more helpful words of our own Howard Wasserman and Danny Markel:

So let the angsting commence.

If you are an author or law review editor and want to share information about your submission experience to the law reviews, this is the place to do it. If you have questions about the process, this is the place to do it. Feel free to use the comments to share your information (and gripes or praise) about which journals you have heard from, which you have not, etc. Have at it. And do it reasonably nicely, pretty please.

Posted by Rick Garnett on August 5, 2015 at 09:19 AM in Rick Garnett | Permalink

Comments

Summarizing the other thread, it looks like Yale, Virginia, Cornell, Texas, and Wisconsin have sent out dings so far this season. Anyone else?

Posted by: Anonymoose | Aug 5, 2015 2:47:52 PM

Chicago as well. Ding off an expedite request.

Posted by: Tito | Aug 5, 2015 3:29:06 PM

Columbia ding, submitted 8/1

Posted by: Anon | Aug 5, 2015 3:35:28 PM

I have two articles in peer review in interdisciplinary journals. Average wait time for a response is 4 to 6 months. In comparison, most law reviews operate at light speed. Chill out unless tenure hangs by a thread.

Posted by: WWP | Aug 5, 2015 3:46:59 PM

Has anyone received an offer from a T50 flagship journal at this point? Or is it still to early for the top journals to be making offers?

Posted by: anon | Aug 5, 2015 4:25:58 PM

Notre Ding

Posted by: Guest | Aug 5, 2015 7:06:25 PM

Notre ding as well

Posted by: ioi | Aug 5, 2015 8:06:46 PM

NYU ding off expedite.

Posted by: anon | Aug 5, 2015 8:18:42 PM

Yale ding on 6/30 (submitted on 6/20)
Chicago ding on 7/13 (submitted on 6/30)
Columbia ding on 7/28 (submitted on 7/27)
Georgetown ding on 8/2 (submitted on 7/21)
Cornell ding on 8/3 (submitted on 7/28)
Notre Dame ding on 8/5 (submitted on 7/31)

Posted by: anon | Aug 5, 2015 8:38:37 PM

Just submitted today. While we sit and stew, I have a couple general questions. I've heard conflicting things about the role of publications in entry-level hiring. Thanks for any thoughts.

(1) how important is article placement with respect to getting screening interviews? how about callbacks?
(2)what's an average successful entry-level candidate's publication record like? what would an above-average publication record look like?
(3) when does a publication hurt a candidate?
(4) whither publishing frequency?

Posted by: anon | Aug 5, 2015 9:00:21 PM

NYU, Notre Dame, and Cornell dings today. No expedite. All submitted around August 1.

Posted by: junior.prof | Aug 5, 2015 10:05:15 PM

For those who are expediting, which journals made you offers?

Posted by: Tenured prof | Aug 5, 2015 11:32:37 PM

Washington Law Review ding.

Posted by: Tito | Aug 6, 2015 12:11:06 AM

Washington Law Review ding as well

Posted by: miramex | Aug 6, 2015 4:42:13 AM

Wisconsin ding

Posted by: ioi | Aug 6, 2015 8:03:59 AM

Anon9:00pm, there is a lot of stuff out on the web on entry-level hiring, some of it here on this site, so I recommend some googling. But I don't recall seeing a lot on your specific questions. Thus, my two pennies. Note: these are descriptive statements, not normative; please don't start a flamewar about the stupidity of relying on student editors. (1) Article placement is quite important in getting screening interviews. I can think of one or two people who got a job without a publication, but it is very rare (and they had multiple, excellent works in progress). There are a couple of hundred plausible candidates in the FAR, and so many committee members use the quality of placement as a screening tool for which resumes to look at more closely. The quality of the article itself matters a lot more, especially farther in the process, but placement is still useful then, too.
(2) I would say that candidates can get good VAPs with one solid, T100 (or good specialty) placement. Tenure-track candidates in the last couple of (very, very competitive) years usually have two or more, or something else exceptional that signals great promise. (3) quality is ultimately more important than placement -- publishing a lousy article that could have been improved won't help you. Publishing in a random, unheralded journal doesn't hurt per se, but it's a lost opportunity. At this stage, you shouldn't publish in a journal that won't help you get a job. (4) eh?

Posted by: BDG | Aug 6, 2015 9:51:22 AM

Ah, the familiar trajectory of submission season. The initial post-submission euphoria. The fast degradation into a miserable prawsfblawg refreshing zombie during the following 10 days of silence. The self-loathing period of expediting. The slow death of that last expedite which fades into silence...

But we love it, don't we.

Posted by: Dirt McGirt | Aug 6, 2015 11:04:00 AM

Northwestern ding off expedite

Posted by: anon | Aug 6, 2015 11:49:37 AM

"(2) I would say that candidates can get good VAPs with one solid, T100 (or good specialty) placement. Tenure-track candidates in the last couple of (very, very competitive) years usually have two or more, or something else exceptional that signals great promise."

As a data point, I was on the market a few years ago with an article placed in the T25-T50 range and another one in the T50-T75 range. I had 5-10 FAR interviews and no callbacks. I also struck out trying to get a VAP (though I didn't try super hard because I had pretty much decided to bag on academia by that point, and a VAP would have meant living away from my family).

Posted by: My $0.02 | Aug 6, 2015 1:06:20 PM

"(2) I would say that candidates can get good VAPs with one solid, T100 (or good specialty) placement. Tenure-track candidates in the last couple of (very, very competitive) years usually have two or more, or something else exceptional that signals great promise."

As a data point, I was on the market a few years ago with an article placed in the T25-T50 range and another one in the T50-T75 range. I had 5-10 FAR interviews and no callbacks. I also struck out trying to get a VAP (though I didn't try super hard because I had pretty much decided to bag on academia by that point, and a VAP would have meant living away from my family).

Posted by: My $0.02 | Aug 6, 2015 1:06:20 PM

I'm anon | Aug 5, 2015 9:00:21 PM. Thanks for responding to me @BDG, I've read pretty much everything on this site regarding entry-level hiring and quite a bit of other stuff, and I can't recall straight answers on this point either (maybe because there isn't really a straight answer?). Hence the asking here. Also I appreciate your thoughts @$0.02. You have a good publication record (incidentally, v. similar to mine so far).

Ah and by whither publishing frequency I mean how prolific do entry level hiring committees like you to be? I work at a nonprofit at an actual 9-5 and so I can write as I work, but I've been grinding things out faster than I would like in the hope that publishing something every cycle is something the law schools like to see.

Posted by: anon | Aug 6, 2015 2:42:26 PM

I just submitted to a bunch of journals. Got one super fast reject from Texas A&M (their volume is full so ignore the option to submit to them via ExpressO). Also received an acceptance from a relatively good specialized journal. The acceptance was so quick there's no way they would have had time to even read the piece.

Posted by: 1_year_from_market | Aug 6, 2015 3:15:22 PM

A ton of interesting data here from Scholastica. It'll take me a while to fully shift through everything:

https://scholasticahq.com/law-review-submissions-insights

Posted by: Anonymoose | Aug 6, 2015 5:52:00 PM

Cardozo rejection this morning (submitted on Aug. 1)

Posted by: anon | Aug 6, 2015 8:23:24 PM

"Thank you for your interest in the Texas A&M Law Review. Unfortunately, we are no longer accepting submissions for the 2015–2016 publication year due to full volume and are unable to extend an offer of publication at this time. "

Posted by: Tenured prof | Aug 6, 2015 9:54:37 PM

Finally!!! My Cornell rejection! Was waiting for it

Posted by: ioi | Aug 7, 2015 9:06:32 AM

Submitted to top 100 three days ago and have heard nothing. Crickets. And then noticed a typo in my abstract. Arrrgh.

Posted by: Tenured prof | Aug 7, 2015 10:26:09 AM

"Thank you for your article submission to the Pepperdine Law Review. We are currently not accepting articles at this time."

Posted by: Tenured prof | Aug 7, 2015 4:24:33 PM

Texas ding this morning

Posted by: Anon | Aug 7, 2015 7:25:49 PM

just rejected by Michigan

Posted by: anon | Aug 8, 2015 8:06:13 AM

For those getting dings, how many days ago did you submit?

Posted by: Tenured prof | Aug 8, 2015 9:27:38 AM

I've created a spreadsheet that anyone can edit. You can put in the name of the journal, the date submitted, and the date rejected (or accepted), and the spreadsheet will calculate days to rejection. This might be an easier way to handle the information than the above. I've gone ahead and added one comment (that listed dates submitted and rejected) so people can see how it works. But I generally won't be updating or watching the spreadsheet. (This spreadsheet isn't meant to endorse angsting.)

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1KuUwCtpf58CYx1TWai1abjYfVklNt0PrXIfPQjSYNm4/edit?usp=sharing

Posted by: Sarah Lawsky | Aug 8, 2015 9:48:37 AM

Thanks, Sarah!

Posted by: Tenured prof | Aug 8, 2015 11:49:07 AM

Stanford rejection. No expedite.

Posted by: junior.prof | Aug 8, 2015 9:20:01 PM

Wisconsin, Michigan, and NYU dings. Lots of silence otherwise. I'd imagine things will pick up the next two weeks as students get back to campus?

Posted by: anon | Aug 9, 2015 2:21:34 PM

Richmond ding, submitted Aug 6

Posted by: Guest | Aug 9, 2015 5:17:44 PM

Submitted to T50 journals on Aug. 5. Complete silence so far--is that normal?

Posted by: anon | Aug 9, 2015 5:59:25 PM

anon @ 5:59; I did the same between 8/4 and 8/6 and to some specialties. So far one specialty rejection and silence from everywhere else.

Posted by: anonanon | Aug 9, 2015 6:24:28 PM

Submitted to top 75 or so, at least the ones that were accepting submissions. Two acceptances so far and in the expedite process. A wide range of dings, ranging from William & Mary (before the electrons were dry) to Michigan (just a day or two ago), also one ding off an expedite (Virginia). About 20 journals still "live" (i.e., above my top acceptance and apparently reviewing submissions for real) by my estimation. It's a tough season, but there are definitely journals reviewing articles.

Posted by: nana | Aug 9, 2015 9:46:17 PM

Oh, sorry, meant to say that I did the submissions on August 1.

Posted by: nana | Aug 9, 2015 9:46:59 PM

Stanford ding.

Posted by: anon | Aug 9, 2015 10:10:51 PM

anon 10:10:51 PM: When did you submit to Stanford?

Posted by: anon | Aug 9, 2015 10:22:07 PM

Submitted 1/8. Dings so far: Stanford, Yale, Michigan, Virginia, Texas, Notre Dam, Berkeley Crim. L. Acceptions: Single 75-100 so far. Hopefully, will move up. If not - Happy with the placement!

Posted by: wewe | Aug 10, 2015 7:13:37 AM

Dings from Yale, Texas, Cornell, Virginia, Wisconsin, and Michigan

Posted by: Anonymous Hero | Aug 10, 2015 8:31:29 AM

Okay serious thought for future comments. It might be interesting to learn if selection of submission engine (e.g., ExpressO or Scholastica) have any effect on the likelihood of acceptance or rejection. Perhaps some journals are heavily responsive to one but not another? Just a thought that collecting that data into Sarah's spreadsheet might be quite interesting. Thanks!

Posted by: Anon | Aug 10, 2015 8:48:39 AM

Authors and Editors: When would you say that the Fall cycle winds down? Is a submission around September 1 too late?

Posted by: Back to School | Aug 10, 2015 10:14:16 AM

Submitted 8/8 to the top 50 and a half a dozen specialties. No responses. I used to get insta-rejections but that appears no longer to be true. Now that I've been doing this for 5 years, I just wait and wait, until I give up after a couple of weeks.

Posted by: no longer a newbie | Aug 10, 2015 10:28:06 AM

Submitted on 8/5 to top 100 and specialties. Just got first ding from Wisconsin on an expedite from a specialty journal acceptance. On the expedite, heard from one top 50 general law review that they "hope to have a response to [me] soon."

Back to School: fwiw, I don't think 9/1 is too late....

Posted by: Tenured prof | Aug 10, 2015 10:43:37 AM

Back to school - some journals list 8/15 or later openings...

Posted by: anonandon | Aug 10, 2015 11:52:12 AM

U. Penn. stealth ding. Submitted 8/1.

Posted by: Anony | Aug 10, 2015 6:15:02 PM

What is a stealth ding?

Posted by: YesterdayIKilledaMammoth | Aug 10, 2015 8:21:49 PM

It showed up on Scholastica but they didn't send me an email notifying me of the rejection.

Posted by: Anony | Aug 11, 2015 1:08:50 AM

I submitted via Scholastica and the shortly thereafter rec'd an offer which I accepted. I then with drew the submission to the other journals via Scholastica. I just rec'd a "rejection" from the Chicago L Review - oh sure after careful consideration.....

Posted by: UChiLRev | Aug 11, 2015 10:01:56 AM

Does anyone know if Harvard is reviewing? The first sentence of their submission page says they are not reviewing, but the third sentence says they will begin reviewing on August 10. My guess is that they are reviewing but just have not updated the website, but though someone might know better than a guess.

I have no pretense that they will be interested in my article, but needed a new post to this thread to go up so that I (and we) would have something to ponder while we wait.

Posted by: anon | Aug 11, 2015 10:11:47 AM

Submitted 8/5 to top 100. Dings from Virginia,Cornell, Wisconsin. Offer from top 40 journal. Waiting on expedites from remaining journals, about 25 that are still reviewing.

Posted by: Tenured prof | Aug 11, 2015 11:56:32 AM

Does anyone know whether William and Mary has stopped sending rejection notices? They've had my article for quite awhile (3+ weeks) with no communication. Not sure whether they've started doing "silent rejections" or if my article is lost somewhere in cyberspace.

Posted by: YesterdayIKilledaMammoth | Aug 11, 2015 12:03:14 PM

I haven't heard a peep from William and Mary either. Also, I just submitted to the HLR -- what's another rejection, right?!

Posted by: Tenured prof | Aug 11, 2015 12:22:49 PM

I received a ding from William & Mary late last night. Submitted 8/7 to T50 and a few specialties. Offers from two specialties. W&M is my only rejection so far. Expedite deadline is this Friday.

Posted by: GEL | Aug 11, 2015 12:45:59 PM

Columbia ding.

Posted by: Tenured prof | Aug 11, 2015 1:07:01 PM

For those of you, like me, hearing almost nothing but crickets, I offer this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMyCa35_mOg

Posted by: Andy Wright | Aug 11, 2015 2:28:02 PM

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