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Thursday, January 31, 2013

VAPs and Fellowships: Open Thread, 2012-2013

[Originally published 11/26/12; final bump, 1/31/13.]

As requested, here is this year's open thread in which comments can be shared regarding news of interviews for or appointments to VAPs or similar fellowships (for example, the Climenko and Bigelow).  (Here is last year's thread.) 

[If someone wants to aggregate this information, email me, slawsky *at* law *dot* uci *dot* edu, and I will set you up with an embedded spreadsheet.]

Posted by Sarah Lawsky on January 31, 2013 at 06:14 PM in Getting a Job on the Law Teaching Market | Permalink


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Columbia's Associates program is still interviewing.

Posted by: Anon | Jan 5, 2013 4:39:14 PM

Did anyone on here also apply to Yale's PhD in law program?

Posted by: Anon | Jan 5, 2013 10:48:27 PM

Stetson did interviews at AALS and is done with callbacks.

Posted by: Anon | Jan 7, 2013 11:41:28 AM

have any programs started sending rejections yet? looks like at least a few are done hiring.

Posted by: a-anon | Jan 7, 2013 11:53:30 AM

Southwestern Law School is seeking applicants for a full-time position as a professor of Legal Analysis, Writing and Skills (LAWS). Our innovative LAWS course offers first-year students six credits of instruction in core lawyering skills including research, writing, client counseling, oral advocacy, and professionalism. Entry-level appointment as an Associate Professor of Legal Analysis, Writing and Skills is for an initial contract of two years with the possibility of presumptively renewable five-year contracts after the third year. LAWS professors participate actively in the life of Southwestern and enjoy full faculty voting rights. The LAWS program has a director and shared core assignments, but faculty members each select and develop their own teaching materials and lessons. Applicants must have a law degree, strong academic record, and at least two years of post-law school experience demonstrating the potential for excellence in teaching legal writing and other practical lawyering skills. Teaching experience is preferred but not required. Southwestern is committed to faculty diversity. Applicants should anticipate a start date in July 2013. Please send a cover letter and resume to lawsad2013@swlaw.edu. You can address your cover letter to Members of the LAWS Hiring Committee.

Salary: 80-89k
Students Per Semester: 41-45
Submission Deadline: 2013-02-10

Posted by: anon | Jan 7, 2013 1:25:31 PM

No rejections here (yet).

Posted by: FARout | Jan 7, 2013 2:38:54 PM

I received a rejection from Columbia via email on Sunday afternoon -- the timing seemed a bit odd.

Posted by: Anon | Jan 7, 2013 4:07:23 PM

@ Anon 4:07:23 PM:
Which program?

So far no rejections here either. But also no interviews.

Posted by: Anon | Jan 7, 2013 4:38:26 PM

Rejection was from the Associates-in-law program.

Posted by: Anon | Jan 7, 2013 4:42:04 PM

Accepted to Yale PhD in Law

Posted by: anon | Jan 9, 2013 2:11:12 PM

I submitted my app for the Yale PhD program Dec. 1st, but haven't heard back yet.

Posted by: Anon | Jan 9, 2013 2:30:18 PM

would the person who was accepted into Yale's PhD program mind sharing a little bit about their stats?

Posted by: anon | Jan 9, 2013 8:27:24 PM

I'm actually really curious to hear whether many folks applying for fellowships and VAPS also applied for the Yale PhD program. And, if so, how they think the program would compare to a fellowship.

Posted by: Anon | Jan 10, 2013 11:32:27 PM

Accepted to Yale PhD with stats competitive for Bigelow/Climenko. Will probably pick Yale. More time to write before going on market, fantastic faculty interaction/oversight, believe that Yale will work really hard to help PhD candidates on the market because program won't succeed if people don't get good jobs.

Posted by: anon | Jan 11, 2013 7:57:00 AM

What are stats competitive for a Bigelow/Climenko

Posted by: anon | Jan 11, 2013 11:24:46 AM

Here's a link to the current Bigelow Fellows for reference:

Posted by: Anon | Jan 11, 2013 1:20:20 PM

And current Climenkos:

Posted by: anon | Jan 11, 2013 2:06:24 PM

The basic summary of resumes should look something like this: top of law school class, clerk for a prominent appellate judge, a few years in BigLaw, maybe an MA in economics or a PhD in the Classics.

Posted by: #ballsohard | Jan 11, 2013 3:29:18 PM

@#ballsohard: correction, "top of law school class at top law school" seems more accurate.

Posted by: anon | Jan 11, 2013 4:33:41 PM

Correct! Neglected the T5 school element.

Posted by: #ballsohard | Jan 11, 2013 4:39:18 PM

I think it's getting time for a bump. It's awful quiet here. Thank you!

Posted by: Anon | Jan 13, 2013 8:34:54 AM

NYU has hired at least one lawyering professor for next year. The administration also earlier stated that it intended to extend all of its initial interview offers before the start of 2013.

Posted by: anon | Jan 13, 2013 1:54:04 PM

Re: lawyering,

I was told that they were still accepting applications and sent in my materials this past week.

Posted by: on the market (again) | Jan 13, 2013 8:11:55 PM

GW has conducted some interviews, but as far as I know, they have not yet extended offers.

Posted by: Anon | Jan 14, 2013 11:36:40 AM

Person(s) who were accepted into the Yale PhD in law - when did you send your application in -

Who else applied - anyone else hear anything? Any indication if they sent out all their acceptances at once or if they are being sent out individually?

Posted by: Anon | Jan 15, 2013 7:40:56 AM

Though Yale originally said they were doing rolling acceptances, my understanding is that they decided not to review any applications until after the Dec. 15 deadline. I have yet to hear, but considering that little work was likely done over the break and the semester is only a week or two old, I wouldn't anticipate that many offers have been extended.

Posted by: Anon | Jan 15, 2013 9:24:05 AM

Thanks for your comment - how did you find out that they weren't reviewing applications until after the Dec. 15 deadline?

I was pretty surprised that someone was accepted on or before Jan. 7 ... that made me think that for sure it must be rolling applications (or, else they extended all their offers before the deadline).

Posted by: Anon | Jan 15, 2013 9:35:52 AM

I'm the person who posted on 1/7. My understanding is the same as 9:24 -- that they were originally going to do rolling acceptances but decided to wait and evaluate all of the applications after the 12/15 deadline.

Posted by: anon | Jan 15, 2013 10:30:09 AM

re anon Jan 15, 2013, 10:30:09 am

So you were accepted on or before the 7th - but this was the result of not rolling admissions but evaluating all of them after 12/15?

Meaning that all the acceptances have gone out already?

Or you were only asking about it and you weren't accepted?

I'm confused. Where are people getting the information about rolling/non-rolling admissions from?

Posted by: anonxiety | Jan 15, 2013 10:46:58 AM

Does anyone have any non Yale-related information to share?

Posted by: ohai | Jan 15, 2013 2:20:26 PM

There are, at most, 5 spots for the Yale PhD program. I think we can assume that the admitted among us got one of the only -- if not THE only -- offers to go out thus because he/she had credential worthy of Bigelow and Climenko. I can't imagine there were many others like that in the pile of applicants; indeed, the fact that he/she thinks she's going to choose Yale has me reconsidering the potential quality of the program.

On to Ohai's question, though: Any VAP or fellowship news? In particular, any from schools that might just now be starting to review applicants?

Posted by: Anon 9:24 am | Jan 15, 2013 2:46:18 PM

Considering how many of the VAPs already have a Ph.D. or are currently finishing it up, I don't think there is a large overlap between (potentially successful) VAP applicants and Yale applicants.

Posted by: Anon | Jan 15, 2013 3:18:32 PM

I was last year's VAP Aggregator, and while I'm not quite willing to do it again, I'm happy to share the spreadsheets/other resources I developed (and posted) last year as well as help anyone who wants to aggregate get off the ground this year.

Feel free to email me (vapaggregator (at) gmail) if you're interested; you should also email Sarah Lawsky as indicated at the top of the thread.

Also, a word of thought/advice -- this can be a long and (stressful) process. I didn't end up with the offer for my current position until April. Timelines vary *widely*, and can vary even more widely depending on whether or not schools' first-choice candidates turn them down.

Best of luck to everyone trying to break in to the process. It really *is* the best job in the world. (Except perhaps, if you're a sports fan, Jim Nantz's job. ;))

Posted by: VAP Aggregator (2011-2012) | Jan 15, 2013 5:11:56 PM

The yale phd program got hammered in the legal blogosphere. Probably 4/5th of the coverage has been negative, so I think its somewhat a gamble as to how much value it will add. A Bigelow or a Climenko is a sure thing with a proven track record, plus greater pay and located in much nicer cities, so I think it would be pretty crazy to pick the yale law phd over the Bigelow or Climenko if you could actually get into all three programs.

Posted by: anon | Jan 15, 2013 5:15:10 PM

While I'm not a great fan of the concept of a law PhD, I think the Yale PhD is a far better option than a fellowship because of the tremendous institutional support Yale's PhD students are likely to receive. Not least because of the reputational stakes - having committed to a PhD program, Yale's faculty would want to ensure its success; not to do so would be embarrassing. At the end of the day, the Bigelow and Climenko fellows are there to fulfill a curricular need, i.e., teach legal writing. Boston and Chicago may be somewhat nicer cities in the abstract, but New Haven is just fine and has the advantage of being only 1.5 hrs from NYC which offers greater professional options for spouses/significant others (not to mention the superior cultural offerings).

Posted by: anonn | Jan 15, 2013 5:41:01 PM

anonn, that makes sense if you think that a critical mass of the Yale faculty buys into the PhD concept and wants to it succeed. I think, though, that many of them are as skeptical as everyone else.

Posted by: Anon | Jan 16, 2013 2:41:15 AM

I'm not sure you need a critical mass. I think you need the right supporters.

Posted by: anon | Jan 16, 2013 8:42:52 AM

Out of curiosity, what is a VAP Aggregator?

Posted by: Anon | Jan 16, 2013 10:34:40 AM

NM: http://prawfsblawg.blogs.com/prawfsblawg/2012/02/vaps-and-fellowships-open-thread-2011-2012.html

Posted by: Anon | Jan 16, 2013 10:35:23 AM

Anonn makes a fair point. But I wouldn't exactly say "the Bigelow and Climenko fellows are there to fulfill a curricular need." I can only speak re: Climenko, but frankly the teaching load is incredibly light--the class meets rarely and slides and lectures are basically done by someone else and handed to you. The bulk of a Climenko's time is truly spent on scholarship and prepping for the market.

Posted by: vapstar | Jan 16, 2013 11:31:41 AM

Does anyone know what tuition remission benefits, if any, are typically available for spouses of T20 VAPs? T5 VAPs?

Posted by: anon | Jan 16, 2013 10:50:22 PM

Yale received 82 applications for max 5 spots. http://yaledailynews.com/blog/2013/01/17/law-ph-d-gets-first-applications/

Posted by: anonanon | Jan 17, 2013 9:41:18 AM

"Applications for the Law School’s Ph.D. program closed on Dec. 15, and accepted students will be notified this spring."

that seems to imply that notifications haven't gone out yet.

Posted by: anon | Jan 17, 2013 10:15:10 AM

At least two other Yale offers have been extended, both to Bigelow/Climenko-like applicants.

Posted by: Nona | Jan 17, 2013 10:19:14 AM

So your understanding is that 3 yale phd offers have been extended? (You know that one of your two offers wasn't the anon from earlier?)

Posted by: anon | Jan 17, 2013 10:50:50 AM

Neither of the two are the earlier anon.

Posted by: Nona | Jan 17, 2013 2:58:50 PM

WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY SCHOOL OF LAW invites applications for its Clinic Faculty Fellows program. The fellowship is designed to train talented lawyers to obtain an academic teaching post, ideally including clinical teaching, and to help provide teaching coverage in the School’s Clinical Education Program. The fellowship will provide mentoring to help the fellow develop clinical pedagogical skills and produce academic scholarship.

The fellow’s teaching assignment will be in the Criminal Justice Clinic (with Professor Peter Joy) and may include a course outside the clinic. In the Clinic, the Fellow will supervise students providing trial-level representation to persons charged with misdemeanors and felonies and teach a classroom component. Candidates should have significant experience practicing criminal law, demonstrate promise as a legal scholar and teacher, and have a commitment to pursuing a career in legal academia. Candidates must be eligible to practice law in Missouri (i.e., must be a member of the Missouri bar or eligible for admission as a law teacher without examination pursuant to Missouri Supreme Court Rule 13.06). Fellows receive a competitive salary along with employee benefits and support for research.

The fellow will be appointed for two academic years beginning July 1, 2013. The fellow is expected to participate in the entry-level teaching market beginning in fall 2014. The School’s prior fellows have obtained tenure-track positions at other schools. Applicants should submit a resume, law school transcript, references, and brief description of the candidate’s scholarly agenda or interest in entering academia.

Washington University School of Law is committed to diversity and encourages applications from racial and ethnic groups, women, persons with disabilities, and other under-represented groups. Submit application to: Professor Robert Kuehn, Associate Dean for Clinical Programs, Washington University School of Law, One Brookings Drive, Campus Box 1120, St. Louis, MO 63130-4899; rkuehn@wulaw.wustl.edu. Applications will be considered on a rolling basis.

Posted by: anon | Jan 17, 2013 3:51:06 PM

I'm obviously biased, but I can say that while it is certainly possible that Yale faculty will back the PHD candidates (I don't doubt it) we know for certain that U of Chicago strongly backs its Bigelows on the market. One big reason that the Bigelow has a strong record of placing all of its fellows is that the institution really both prepares you well for the market, but perhaps more importantly really supports its candidates including things like making phone calls/ being proactive with schools.

Posted by: former Bigelow | Jan 17, 2013 7:41:56 PM

Speaking of the Bigelow, has anyone been contacted recently regarding interviews or offers? Have they filled all three positions?

Posted by: anon | Jan 18, 2013 9:42:51 AM

No interviews, no rejections, no nothing. I'm getting tired of this game.

Posted by: Anon | Jan 18, 2013 12:13:35 PM

what do people think of this: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/18/opinion/practicing-law-should-not-mean-living-in-bankruptcy.html. i wonder how it's likely to impact the law teaching market a couple of years from now - it can't be a good development as far as i can see.

Posted by: anon | Jan 18, 2013 1:02:17 PM

@Anon 12:15:55, same here. It seems like schools outside the T5 have been really slow to get the ball rolling on VAPs for this fall.

@anon 1:02:17, interesting article. Would like to hear others' views on the likelihood that this will come to pass. It's hard to imagine that many people would pay for an "optional" extra year of law school, and professors who teach non-staple courses (even fairly important ones like, say, Family Law) will be in much lower demand as a result.

Posted by: anon | Jan 18, 2013 1:10:54 PM

Radio silence here too. Last Friday I heard from UConn that they are not brining any VAPs on this year. That has been my only feedback, positive or negative. Sounds like we might be in for a wait as schools try to figure out whether to hire anyone given the collapse of the applicant pool this year.

Posted by: VAP-to-be | Jan 18, 2013 6:35:00 PM

*bringing (I suppose UConn is also not going to soak anyone in salt either)

Posted by: VAP-to-be | Jan 18, 2013 6:38:14 PM

I think declarations of a "slow" season are seriously jumping the gun here. Apart from a very few programs (Climenko, Bigelow, the Columbia programs, NYU AAP, the Yale PhD, and perhaps one or two VAP programs), the great majority of VAPs and fellowships have barely reached--or have yet to reach--their application deadlines: Duke, UPenn, Georgetown, Cornell, Northwestern, WashU, most subfield fellowships at Harvard and NYU, and nearly all positions at lower-ranked schools. As far as we know, the ones that have deadlines in the fall are indeed moving along at their usual pace, and the Spring deadline positions have, of course, yet to start their review process.

Posted by: anon | Jan 19, 2013 4:22:02 PM

FWIW, last year Duke, Georgetown and UPenn sent out interview requests 3-4 weeks after their deadlines. If they stick to that this year, then we should starting hearing back in 10-14 days.

Posted by: anon | Jan 19, 2013 4:33:36 PM

Does anyone know of a Prawfsblawg/Faculty Lounge/Concurring Opinions/similar site's post on making the most of a VAP? I've been poking around on Google but I can't find anything except this site's "What Makes a Good Fellowship Program?," which seems to target those creating VAPs rather than those serving in them.

Posted by: Anon | Jan 21, 2013 10:14:30 AM

If a professor emails you a rejection notice, do you write back thanking him/her for the information?

Posted by: new-anon | Jan 21, 2013 3:55:05 PM

I wish I was getting any rejections, so far still nothing. No invits, no rejections.

Posted by: Anon | Jan 22, 2013 2:08:27 AM

I have a screening interview coming up, by phone, and I was wondering what I might expect. Are they much like mini-job talks or akin to AALS DC "meat market" interviews? Or less aggressive?

Posted by: pedrera | Jan 22, 2013 1:25:33 PM

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