Thursday, January 31, 2013
VAPs and Fellowships: Open Thread, 2012-2013
[Originally published 11/26/12; final bump, 1/31/13.]
As requested, here is this year's open thread in which comments can be shared regarding news of interviews for or appointments to VAPs or similar fellowships (for example, the Climenko and Bigelow). (Here is last year's thread.)
[If someone wants to aggregate this information, email me, slawsky *at* law *dot* uci *dot* edu, and I will set you up with an embedded spreadsheet.]
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Let's get this started: Has anybody been interviewed already or has anybody received an invitation? If yes, which school?
Posted by: AJ | Nov 26, 2012 10:22:52 AM
Someone posted in the Clearinghouse for Questions, 2012-2013 thread that NYU Lawyering and Climenko had started interviewing, but I have no idea the extent.
Posted by: prospective | Nov 26, 2012 10:36:55 AM
Columbia's Associates program has started interviewing but is considering applications on a rolling basis this year.
Posted by: anon | Nov 26, 2012 10:49:12 AM
Does anyone know about the extent of NYU and Harvard's interviews? Are they expecting to do more throughout the winter?
Posted by: prospective | Nov 26, 2012 11:03:35 AM
CRR-CLS fellowship decisions should be made this week.
Harvard Petrie-Flom fellowship decisions are not expected until February.
Posted by: FARout | Nov 26, 2012 12:16:27 PM
Anyone hear anything from GW? My (possibly incorrect) understanding is that they hire a bit earlier than most.
Posted by: VAP! VAP! | Nov 26, 2012 12:41:17 PM
Northeastern Legal Writing VAP just listed, February application deadline:
Posted by: RMM | Nov 26, 2012 3:00:27 PM
Chicago Bigelow has doen some interviewing and has filled at least one of the three slots.
Posted by: insider | Nov 26, 2012 3:13:45 PM
Applications for fellowships with the Yale Law School Information Society Project are due January 1:
Posted by: Lisa | Nov 26, 2012 3:57:11 PM
Is NYU Lawyering only doing screening interviews (like at the Meat Market, but for candidates who applied later), or have they moved on to callbacks?
Posted by: anon | Nov 26, 2012 4:06:08 PM
My sense is that Climenko interviews are about halfway through.
Posted by: anon | Nov 27, 2012 1:06:48 PM
Do you mean they are still calling and scheduling, or that they have scheduled all of them and are only halfway through the actual interviews. Also, any sense about NYU Lawyering?
Posted by: prospective | Nov 27, 2012 1:36:32 PM
FWIW: the Williams Institute had an early deadline for its fellowship and conducted the majority of its interviews a few weeks ago.
Posted by: BaconBits | Nov 28, 2012 2:30:37 PM
@BaconBits: The Williams Institute deadline has passed, but it hasn't yet conducted interviews (though some are scheduled). If you haven't already applied, it's unfortunately too late to do so now.
Posted by: ohai | Nov 28, 2012 5:03:42 PM
@ohai - I don't mean to speak out of turn (just trying to add to the collective knowledge), but the information I received was that some interviews have already been conducted while others are forthcoming. Perhaps those earlier interviews did not happen. And yes, luckily I was aware of the 10/19 deadline and applied in time.
Posted by: BaconBits | Nov 28, 2012 7:03:35 PM
Any word on whether Petrie Flom has begun interviewing?
Posted by: another anon | Nov 28, 2012 7:22:32 PM
no Petrie Flom interview here, FWIW
Posted by: FARout | Nov 28, 2012 9:04:29 PM
Thanks. As my comment implied, haven't heard of any PF interviews either.
Posted by: another anon | Nov 29, 2012 7:03:15 AM
What is the general opinion on follow-ups to your application? Do it, don't do it?
Posted by: AJ | Nov 30, 2012 10:50:21 AM
I am back from an on campus visit with Buffalo (SUNY) that turned out to be a very odd visit. My advisor mentioned something about the law faculty going through a bad patch similar to some of the issues seen at SLU. Did anyone have a similar experience? Thanks!
Posted by: JS | Dec 1, 2012 5:48:34 PM
AJ, I would follow up to ensure completion-- i.e. ask whether your application materials, recommendations, transcript etc. have all arrived. Last year that was the only way I knew that one of my recommenders had forgotten to send a letter.
As for general checking in, it probably won't do any good, although you could check in re timeline (Have all interviews been scheduled? Have you begun making offers?) and report back to this group!
Posted by: nutmegger | Dec 2, 2012 10:17:11 AM
Did anybody hear anything from GWU?
Posted by: anon | Dec 3, 2012 10:47:03 AM
JS - I have an interest in UB and hadn't heard about a bad patch, but I don't have any insider info! Class size was in line with past years though (up this year, but I think last year might've been lower than historical). I'd be very keen to know what was odd about your visit/what I should look out for. If you are comfortable sharing, please email me at legaleagle329 at yahoo.com.
Posted by: anon | Dec 3, 2012 11:47:52 AM
For people asking about Climenko, in case it's helpful-- last year I was invited for an interview 7 days after all my materials were received.
Posted by: gingerale | Dec 3, 2012 1:32:37 PM
JS - I'd also be interested in hearing about your experience at UB. If you'd like to get in touch, email me at blandings935 at gmail.
Posted by: anon | Dec 3, 2012 2:27:43 PM
re Petrie Flom... I wonder if they're doing interviews at all. My confirmation email from them says they would be in touch when they'd made decisions. There is no mention of an interview process. Anyone know for sure about whether they interview candidates?
Posted by: FARout | Dec 3, 2012 4:20:05 PM
You can google the name of the existing dean at buffalo to get a sense of the dynamics there. Also check out the large turnover in faculty over the past 4-5 years. While some turnover in faculty makes sense, the sheer size of new faculty (I’ve counted 14 on their website) is unusual. They hire on the associate professor level and their associates make up about half of their overall tenure track faculty. This suggests that many faculty members have walked away from their position with buffalo over a short period of time (rarely seen). Any way, keep your options open.
Posted by: anon | Dec 3, 2012 9:25:12 PM
I know that the Dean has hired 17 new faculty members in the past 3-4 years. How do you know that this is a result of many faculty members having walked away from their positions. I do know of one story of this happening at Buffalo--but not some huge turnover. If someone could point to actual profs who have left UB over the past 3-4 years, I would really like to know this.
It seems like there are a number of people waiting to hear from Buffalo on this list. I'd love to talk to folks about this as well. Although I know of the risk aversion of many folks on this list. I can be reached at firstname.lastname@example.org. I wouldn't be averse to sharing what little intel I have about the process. While I know when the faculty plan to vote their offer, I don't know how many offers/positions they plan on filling. I definitely know of at least one.
Posted by: Ana Espinosa | Dec 4, 2012 12:45:54 AM
My intel is similar to Ana's. I know someone left last year but it seemed to be for a good opportunity for her - a law and religion person, and she took a position as chair of a religious studies department. Seems reasonable.... The dean is open about wanting to grow the faculty - the student/faculty ratio was a bit high and he wants to bring it down, or so I've heard. I have read the stuff about the dean but all that has been going on for some time - I'd be interested to know if there is actually anything new/additional going on (that might relate to JS's comment about his/her visit).
Posted by: anon | Dec 4, 2012 9:22:30 AM
How did this become the Buffalo thread instead of the VAP thread?
Posted by: anon | Dec 4, 2012 10:21:42 AM
Very good question anon. Can we please reserve this thread for actual VAP related news?
Posted by: prospective | Dec 4, 2012 11:11:40 AM
I know that PF interviews candidates, but do not know whether interviews have begun/been scheduled this year yet.
Posted by: another anon | Dec 4, 2012 4:47:55 PM
Does the University of Washington still have a VAP program? It was around a couple years ago, but it's not clear whether they're hiring this winter.
Posted by: Proffer | Dec 4, 2012 6:54:35 PM
FWIW, UW didn't hire last season for its VAP program.
Posted by: FARout | Dec 4, 2012 8:59:09 PM
Really, has nobody heard anything else, at least with regard to Climenko and NYU, which are allegedly interviewing?
Posted by: prospective | Dec 6, 2012 11:42:38 AM
I received a letter in the mail today from IIT Chicago-Kent informing me that they had received my application but were not sure if they would have any positions open next year and that they would be in touch after the first of the year. Does anyone have any information about any other fellowship/VAP? Anything?
Posted by: VAP-to-be | Dec 6, 2012 8:04:40 PM
I heard of one Petrie-Flom interview.
Posted by: Anon | Dec 7, 2012 1:19:17 PM
Petrie-Flom is still making interview decisions and hopes to finish that process by the end of January.
Posted by: FARout | Dec 7, 2012 6:47:19 PM
Two questions--one, is there a list of VAP's for the 2013 cycle? I know Prof. Caron has one on his blog but does not appear to have done it for this year. Two, Harvard has had a VAP for experienced practitioners--does anyone know if HLS will have that program for this year? Many thanks and good luck to all.
Posted by: Charlie Martel | Dec 8, 2012 8:37:14 AM
Charlie, I believe that list usually goes up sometime after the new year, as most schools deal with VAPs after entry-level hiring is all wrapped up (but the list doesn't change much year to year anyway). HLS hasn't done that VAP for a couple of years and I highly doubt they'll do it this year, but it's worth inquiring. Last year when I asked I couldn't get a definitive answer until months after I accepted my current VAP, though.
Posted by: juniorminted | Dec 8, 2012 11:18:03 AM
Climenko has definitely hired this year, though I don't think they're anywhere near done.
Posted by: outsider | Dec 10, 2012 12:07:57 PM
Outsider, do you know if they are done interviewing?
Posted by: prospective | Dec 10, 2012 12:27:12 PM
http://www.thefacultylounge.org/2012/12/texas-tech-seeks-visitors.html. Texas Tech advertised for IP in the FAR bulletin-- wonder if they didn't make a permanent hire because they didn't find someone they liked or they didn't have the budget after all.
Posted by: the dude abides | Dec 10, 2012 1:37:47 PM
Prospective, I would be quite surprised if they were done interviewing for Climenko fellows, but I don't know for certain either way.
Posted by: outsider | Dec 10, 2012 7:47:08 PM
Prospective, did they confirm the receipt of your application? I haven't heard anything.
Posted by: anon | Dec 11, 2012 4:04:13 AM
Yes, Climenko confirmed receipt, but admittedly only after I sent them an email asking if they had received it. And that was more than a month ago. You might want to do the same, just confirming receipt. I think that is completely appropriate. Has anyone heard from NYU Lawyering? I have heard they have started interviewing, but I also heard that they had not sent out all interview invitations yet and that they usually try to do so by the end of fall semester (i.e., the next week or two). This is all hearsay though.
Posted by: prospective | Dec 11, 2012 9:24:14 AM
NYU Lawyering has started interviewing, but to my knowledge, they haven't extended any offers yet.
Posted by: anon | Dec 11, 2012 12:26:15 PM
Williams Institute at UCLA has hired.
Posted by: anon | Dec 11, 2012 8:28:57 PM
The Louis D. Brandeis School of Law at the University of Louisville seeks to hire at least one, and possibly two, visiting professors of legal writing for the 2013-14 academic year. Applications are invited both for appointment as Visiting Assistant Professor of Law and for the Ralph S. Petrilli Distinguished Visiting Professorship. Professors in these positions will be primarily responsible for teaching in the law school’s year-long first year Basic Legal Skills program. Salary will be commensurate with experience.
Information about the law school is available at the school’s website at http://www.law.louisville.edu/. For further information about the school, or to apply, please contact Associate Dean for Academic Affairs, Timothy S. Hall, at email@example.com or (502) 852.6830.
1. Each position is a visitorship for one year.
2. The person hired will not be permitted to vote in faculty meetings.
3. The school anticipates paying an annual academic year salary of $56,000 for the visiting assistant professor position and in the range of $95,000 or more for the distinguished visitor position.
4. The person hired will teach legal writing each semester to a total number of students in the range of 38-44.
5. For full consideration, apply by February 15, 2013.
Posted by: RMM | Dec 14, 2012 6:07:07 PM
Still no word from GWU?
Posted by: AJ | Dec 15, 2012 3:37:28 PM
Anyone know if Villanova is hiring VAPs for next year?
Posted by: City of Brotherly VAP | Dec 18, 2012 3:14:32 PM
Thanks Georgetown for giving us the email addresses of our fellow 65 applicants. Quite a lot of Yale people applying there.
Posted by: Anon | Dec 28, 2012 4:02:11 PM
HAHAHA - that's awesome! Good job G'town.
Posted by: FARout | Dec 28, 2012 4:44:25 PM
At least now we know what the applicant numbers look like... 65 people applying for what, less than half as many VAP/fellowship slots around the country?
Posted by: anon | Dec 28, 2012 5:13:16 PM
It would be a mistake to assume that everyone applying for VAPs applied to G'town...
Posted by: anon | Dec 29, 2012 11:28:48 AM
Caron lists 109 different VAPs/fellowships on his list, plus we know a number of them (Climenko, Bigelow, NYU Lawyering, Temple) take as many as 5 people or more. While not all of those hire every year, I wouldn't agree with the estimate above of fewer than 32 positions.
Posted by: gwen stefani | Dec 29, 2012 11:52:13 AM
Does anyone happen to know if Stetson has done callbacks for its VAP program?
Posted by: Anon | Jan 3, 2013 5:21:23 PM
Not too much going on. Any recent reports?
Posted by: Anon | Jan 3, 2013 10:49:32 PM
no i haven't heard anything yet...no rejection...no interviews...a few msgs my applications were received right after i sent them
Posted by: anon | Jan 5, 2013 12:58:12 PM
Climenko is still interviewing.
Posted by: bichon frise | Jan 5, 2013 4:20:05 PM
Columbia's Associates program is still interviewing.
Posted by: Anon | Jan 5, 2013 4:39:14 PM
Did anyone on here also apply to Yale's PhD in law program?
Posted by: Anon | Jan 5, 2013 10:48:27 PM
Stetson did interviews at AALS and is done with callbacks.
Posted by: Anon | Jan 7, 2013 11:41:28 AM
have any programs started sending rejections yet? looks like at least a few are done hiring.
Posted by: a-anon | Jan 7, 2013 11:53:30 AM
Southwestern Law School is seeking applicants for a full-time position as a professor of Legal Analysis, Writing and Skills (LAWS). Our innovative LAWS course offers first-year students six credits of instruction in core lawyering skills including research, writing, client counseling, oral advocacy, and professionalism. Entry-level appointment as an Associate Professor of Legal Analysis, Writing and Skills is for an initial contract of two years with the possibility of presumptively renewable five-year contracts after the third year. LAWS professors participate actively in the life of Southwestern and enjoy full faculty voting rights. The LAWS program has a director and shared core assignments, but faculty members each select and develop their own teaching materials and lessons. Applicants must have a law degree, strong academic record, and at least two years of post-law school experience demonstrating the potential for excellence in teaching legal writing and other practical lawyering skills. Teaching experience is preferred but not required. Southwestern is committed to faculty diversity. Applicants should anticipate a start date in July 2013. Please send a cover letter and resume to firstname.lastname@example.org. You can address your cover letter to Members of the LAWS Hiring Committee.
Students Per Semester: 41-45
Submission Deadline: 2013-02-10
Posted by: anon | Jan 7, 2013 1:25:31 PM
No rejections here (yet).
Posted by: FARout | Jan 7, 2013 2:38:54 PM
I received a rejection from Columbia via email on Sunday afternoon -- the timing seemed a bit odd.
Posted by: Anon | Jan 7, 2013 4:07:23 PM
@ Anon 4:07:23 PM:
So far no rejections here either. But also no interviews.
Posted by: Anon | Jan 7, 2013 4:38:26 PM
Rejection was from the Associates-in-law program.
Posted by: Anon | Jan 7, 2013 4:42:04 PM
Accepted to Yale PhD in Law
Posted by: anon | Jan 9, 2013 2:11:12 PM
I submitted my app for the Yale PhD program Dec. 1st, but haven't heard back yet.
Posted by: Anon | Jan 9, 2013 2:30:18 PM
would the person who was accepted into Yale's PhD program mind sharing a little bit about their stats?
Posted by: anon | Jan 9, 2013 8:27:24 PM
I'm actually really curious to hear whether many folks applying for fellowships and VAPS also applied for the Yale PhD program. And, if so, how they think the program would compare to a fellowship.
Posted by: Anon | Jan 10, 2013 11:32:27 PM
Accepted to Yale PhD with stats competitive for Bigelow/Climenko. Will probably pick Yale. More time to write before going on market, fantastic faculty interaction/oversight, believe that Yale will work really hard to help PhD candidates on the market because program won't succeed if people don't get good jobs.
Posted by: anon | Jan 11, 2013 7:57:00 AM
What are stats competitive for a Bigelow/Climenko
Posted by: anon | Jan 11, 2013 11:24:46 AM
Here's a link to the current Bigelow Fellows for reference:
Posted by: Anon | Jan 11, 2013 1:20:20 PM
And current Climenkos:
Posted by: anon | Jan 11, 2013 2:06:24 PM
The basic summary of resumes should look something like this: top of law school class, clerk for a prominent appellate judge, a few years in BigLaw, maybe an MA in economics or a PhD in the Classics.
Posted by: #ballsohard | Jan 11, 2013 3:29:18 PM
@#ballsohard: correction, "top of law school class at top law school" seems more accurate.
Posted by: anon | Jan 11, 2013 4:33:41 PM
Correct! Neglected the T5 school element.
Posted by: #ballsohard | Jan 11, 2013 4:39:18 PM
I think it's getting time for a bump. It's awful quiet here. Thank you!
Posted by: Anon | Jan 13, 2013 8:34:54 AM
NYU has hired at least one lawyering professor for next year. The administration also earlier stated that it intended to extend all of its initial interview offers before the start of 2013.
Posted by: anon | Jan 13, 2013 1:54:04 PM
I was told that they were still accepting applications and sent in my materials this past week.
Posted by: on the market (again) | Jan 13, 2013 8:11:55 PM
GW has conducted some interviews, but as far as I know, they have not yet extended offers.
Posted by: Anon | Jan 14, 2013 11:36:40 AM
Person(s) who were accepted into the Yale PhD in law - when did you send your application in -
Who else applied - anyone else hear anything? Any indication if they sent out all their acceptances at once or if they are being sent out individually?
Posted by: Anon | Jan 15, 2013 7:40:56 AM
Though Yale originally said they were doing rolling acceptances, my understanding is that they decided not to review any applications until after the Dec. 15 deadline. I have yet to hear, but considering that little work was likely done over the break and the semester is only a week or two old, I wouldn't anticipate that many offers have been extended.
Posted by: Anon | Jan 15, 2013 9:24:05 AM
Thanks for your comment - how did you find out that they weren't reviewing applications until after the Dec. 15 deadline?
I was pretty surprised that someone was accepted on or before Jan. 7 ... that made me think that for sure it must be rolling applications (or, else they extended all their offers before the deadline).
Posted by: Anon | Jan 15, 2013 9:35:52 AM
I'm the person who posted on 1/7. My understanding is the same as 9:24 -- that they were originally going to do rolling acceptances but decided to wait and evaluate all of the applications after the 12/15 deadline.
Posted by: anon | Jan 15, 2013 10:30:09 AM
re anon Jan 15, 2013, 10:30:09 am
So you were accepted on or before the 7th - but this was the result of not rolling admissions but evaluating all of them after 12/15?
Meaning that all the acceptances have gone out already?
Or you were only asking about it and you weren't accepted?
I'm confused. Where are people getting the information about rolling/non-rolling admissions from?
Posted by: anonxiety | Jan 15, 2013 10:46:58 AM
Does anyone have any non Yale-related information to share?
Posted by: ohai | Jan 15, 2013 2:20:26 PM
There are, at most, 5 spots for the Yale PhD program. I think we can assume that the admitted among us got one of the only -- if not THE only -- offers to go out thus because he/she had credential worthy of Bigelow and Climenko. I can't imagine there were many others like that in the pile of applicants; indeed, the fact that he/she thinks she's going to choose Yale has me reconsidering the potential quality of the program.
On to Ohai's question, though: Any VAP or fellowship news? In particular, any from schools that might just now be starting to review applicants?
Posted by: Anon 9:24 am | Jan 15, 2013 2:46:18 PM
Considering how many of the VAPs already have a Ph.D. or are currently finishing it up, I don't think there is a large overlap between (potentially successful) VAP applicants and Yale applicants.
Posted by: Anon | Jan 15, 2013 3:18:32 PM
I was last year's VAP Aggregator, and while I'm not quite willing to do it again, I'm happy to share the spreadsheets/other resources I developed (and posted) last year as well as help anyone who wants to aggregate get off the ground this year.
Feel free to email me (vapaggregator (at) gmail) if you're interested; you should also email Sarah Lawsky as indicated at the top of the thread.
Also, a word of thought/advice -- this can be a long and (stressful) process. I didn't end up with the offer for my current position until April. Timelines vary *widely*, and can vary even more widely depending on whether or not schools' first-choice candidates turn them down.
Best of luck to everyone trying to break in to the process. It really *is* the best job in the world. (Except perhaps, if you're a sports fan, Jim Nantz's job. ;))
Posted by: VAP Aggregator (2011-2012) | Jan 15, 2013 5:11:56 PM
The yale phd program got hammered in the legal blogosphere. Probably 4/5th of the coverage has been negative, so I think its somewhat a gamble as to how much value it will add. A Bigelow or a Climenko is a sure thing with a proven track record, plus greater pay and located in much nicer cities, so I think it would be pretty crazy to pick the yale law phd over the Bigelow or Climenko if you could actually get into all three programs.
Posted by: anon | Jan 15, 2013 5:15:10 PM
While I'm not a great fan of the concept of a law PhD, I think the Yale PhD is a far better option than a fellowship because of the tremendous institutional support Yale's PhD students are likely to receive. Not least because of the reputational stakes - having committed to a PhD program, Yale's faculty would want to ensure its success; not to do so would be embarrassing. At the end of the day, the Bigelow and Climenko fellows are there to fulfill a curricular need, i.e., teach legal writing. Boston and Chicago may be somewhat nicer cities in the abstract, but New Haven is just fine and has the advantage of being only 1.5 hrs from NYC which offers greater professional options for spouses/significant others (not to mention the superior cultural offerings).
Posted by: anonn | Jan 15, 2013 5:41:01 PM
anonn, that makes sense if you think that a critical mass of the Yale faculty buys into the PhD concept and wants to it succeed. I think, though, that many of them are as skeptical as everyone else.
Posted by: Anon | Jan 16, 2013 2:41:15 AM
I'm not sure you need a critical mass. I think you need the right supporters.
Posted by: anon | Jan 16, 2013 8:42:52 AM
Out of curiosity, what is a VAP Aggregator?
Posted by: Anon | Jan 16, 2013 10:34:40 AM
Posted by: Anon | Jan 16, 2013 10:35:23 AM
Anonn makes a fair point. But I wouldn't exactly say "the Bigelow and Climenko fellows are there to fulfill a curricular need." I can only speak re: Climenko, but frankly the teaching load is incredibly light--the class meets rarely and slides and lectures are basically done by someone else and handed to you. The bulk of a Climenko's time is truly spent on scholarship and prepping for the market.
Posted by: vapstar | Jan 16, 2013 11:31:41 AM
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