Friday, August 10, 2012
The Angsting Thread (Law Review Edition, Autumn 2012)
Friends, the time has come when Redyip is visible. You know what that means. Feel free to use the comments to share your information (and gripes or praise) about which law reviews have turned over, which ones haven't yet, and where you've heard from, and where you've not, and what you'd like Santa to bring you this coming Xmas, etc. It's the semi-annual angsting thread for the law review submission season. Have at it. And do it reasonably nicely, pretty please.
Update: Here is a link to the last page of comments.
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Submitted on 8/1. Rejections from Baylor, Michigan, Pepperdine. Seems a bit sleepy out there right now.
Posted by: ExpressO Drinker | Aug 10, 2012 6:17:12 PM
Submitted in batches beginning on 8/1 and extending into this week. Rejection from Michigan. Otherwise, all quiet on the western front.
Posted by: anonanother | Aug 10, 2012 6:34:05 PM
Just a tip -- I submitted to a couple journals on Scholastica and was not prompted for payment. I was confused by this and thought that perhaps my submissions didn't go through. However, I e-mailed them and learned that they are allowing authors a limited number of grace submissions until institutional accounts have some time to be set up.
(Also, silence on my end. Or, I should say, "radio silence," which appears to be the preferred phrase on these threads, even though it's technically incorrect, I think.)
Posted by: andy | Aug 10, 2012 7:20:30 PM
Also applied 8/1. Rejected by Harvard, Yale, UVA, and MJIL in addition to those already mentioned above.
Posted by: T | Aug 10, 2012 7:22:20 PM
I liked Scholastica's interface. But...
Posted by: ExpressO Drinker | Aug 10, 2012 8:30:03 PM
have submitted through expresso to about 20 top 100 journals (mostly schools ranked around 75-100) over the past week. No responses yet. Only 2 journals sent confirmation receipt to expresso. yes, seems a bit sleepy out there.
Posted by: ericblair | Aug 11, 2012 1:20:17 PM
Call me a bit skeptical that most law reviews actually review in the slow summer, before the week before class. How would they have a board meeting if everyone is far and wide in summer jobs?
Posted by: Anon | Aug 11, 2012 1:39:54 PM
Stanford and Duke both have full volumes and won't be reviewing manuscripts again until spring 2013. Apparently Duke filled its entire book last spring and Stanford filled its book sometime in the first week of August.
Posted by: Anon2 | Aug 11, 2012 3:55:20 PM
Anon 1:39- some journals will circulate articles electronically and begin to divvy up the reading. But I think you are generally right. The real work would begin the week before school starts. Some schools are starting as early as the 20th....
Posted by: ExpressO Drinker | Aug 11, 2012 4:41:40 PM
Submitted: August 3.
Accepted: Top 75 main law review (August 4).
Full volumes: Indiana, Kansas, Washington University
Posted by: nonprof17 | Aug 12, 2012 12:04:51 PM
I submitted to about 35 "Top 100" law reviews a week ago via Expresso, and only about a dozen have confirmed receipt. Not sure how typical that is, though. And still haven't heard back from anyone other than a few immediate dings from folks who were filled up... As someone who hasn't done the late Summer season before, do things typically move a little slower in August?
Posted by: Anon | Aug 12, 2012 7:00:03 PM
Anon 7:00- typically slower and more uneven. I looked back- no action at all until 8/21 out of 4 submissions. Some books are full. So far, out of Top 70, rejections from Baylor, Michigan, Stanford. Have not submitted to Harvard / Yale yet.
Posted by: ExpressO Drinker | Aug 12, 2012 8:55:47 PM
submitted July 24, Top 40 acceptance by end of July-but seems many top reviews not reviewing yet officially. Rejections by Baylor and Michigan.
Posted by: anon | Aug 12, 2012 9:21:47 PM
In addition to schools listed above, rejections from Ohio State, Penn, and Colorado.
Posted by: Anon | Aug 13, 2012 11:38:39 AM
Congratulations anon 9:21. Keep climbing!
Posted by: ExpressO Drinker | Aug 13, 2012 11:52:41 AM
Rejections from Fordham and Cornell as well.
Posted by: Vba | Aug 13, 2012 2:19:45 PM
For those who have received responses, when did you submit? Thanks!
Posted by: B | Aug 13, 2012 4:17:06 PM
8/1-8/12 on a rolling basis- to refresh, rejections from Baylor, Michigan, Pepperdine. Those schools historically have early dings.
Posted by: ExpressO Drinker | Aug 13, 2012 5:59:51 PM
Are you people serious? While over the top, I understand why young people on the job market post the filling of their dance cards as calls trickle in from interested schools. I cannot, for the life of me, understand why ANYONE would participate in an identical process for the law review submission process. The only thing I can hope is that the participants are still newbies going through (and nervous about) the AALS process and not tenure-track or tenured law profs.
There comes a point when we have to think about this enterprise as an intellectual one--and the legal academy, with all of its proxies and myopia is on the edge of anti-intellectual.
Posted by: Ana Espinosa | Aug 13, 2012 6:21:59 PM
Um, Ana? We are talking about law review placement. Though there is a modicum of anxiety, I think we are just comparing notes and having a little fun. As for AALS, that might be a different thread.
Posted by: ExpressO Drinker | Aug 13, 2012 8:34:53 PM
I agree with Ana and will continue her tradition of intellectual enterprise by anonymously critiquing blog threads for being anti-intellectual.
Posted by: Anon | Aug 13, 2012 8:53:00 PM
Still relatively quiet. A couple more dings in the last day or two from schools that are already listed above.
Posted by: anonanother | Aug 14, 2012 12:29:20 AM
Tulane is full. Notice that BYU and Florida just started accepting submissions on Expresso.
Anon 8:53, Thanks for the funny post. I laughed out loud.
Posted by: T | Aug 15, 2012 11:38:39 AM
Offer from Midwestern T30.
Posted by: anon | Aug 15, 2012 9:56:19 PM
Congrats, anon 9:56! When did you submit?
Posted by: submitted 8/15 | Aug 15, 2012 11:15:38 PM
Rejected by Michigan after one day. Thanks for your careful consideration!
Posted by: anon | Aug 16, 2012 12:26:30 PM
I would love (love) to know what it takes for Michigan not to reject within about 24 hours. Just out of sheer curiosity. Has anyone reading ever gotten past that point with them?
Posted by: former optimist | Aug 16, 2012 1:19:08 PM
As to Mich L Review AND the Mich Int'l LJ they send out absurd rejection letters "after careful review..." within 1 or 2 days of sending. No way did they read my articles. Mich L Review and Mich Int'l LJ are so bad they sometimes mix up specific papers you submitted (i.e. you submit now in 2012 and you also submitted in 2011 and they will reject you now in 2012 and list the year old 2011 submission as the article being rejected now in 2012). I stopped sending to Mich. - it is a waste of time. And all of my articles that Mich L Rev and Int'l LJ rejected were accepted by other journals all were well ranked and highly regarded. Who needs Mich?
Posted by: Mr J | Aug 16, 2012 2:42:35 PM
I prefer the 24 hour dings, like that of Michigan, to receiving no response whatsoever. The "careful consideration" part is a bit hard to believe but it's better than nothing.
Posted by: anon | Aug 16, 2012 3:58:15 PM
I have submitted over many years to law reviews in the winter/spring and fall sycles. The differences between the cycles are over-stated, in my opinion. Also, I typically submit to 50+ law reviews on Expresso, and rarely receive confirmations from more than 30%. Important to note, I have received offers from law reviews that show up on Expresso as not having received my submission; so do not put any stock in a blank space next to a journal where you submit. Currently, I have two offers from low-tier journals; was rejected within 24 hours by Michigan (as always). A summary rejection is fine as long as there is no pretense that the article was read or "carefully considered."
Posted by: Prof15 | Aug 16, 2012 4:39:42 PM
Submitted to t 100 last week. Dings from umich, pepp, and harvard
Posted by: Streit | Aug 16, 2012 4:57:26 PM
I've submitted in the fall for each of the last five cycles and have always placed fairly well, at least in the 25-30 range, so I am a big believer in the fall cycle. I've had particular success with articles that are marketable to good secondary journals; most secondary journal editors seem to work over the summer, and offers can then be shopped up in late August when the general law review editors are back at school.
That said, this summer seems rather slow. I submitted almost a week ago and have no offers - got the standard 24-hour rejection from Michigan.
Posted by: yetanotherprof | Aug 16, 2012 5:10:08 PM
Also submitted to T100 on Monday. Ding today from Baylor. Nothing from anyplace else. Most years I've gotten an offer within 3-5 days of an early August submission.
Posted by: waiting | Aug 16, 2012 10:06:17 PM
former optimist: I submitted to Michigan last year and got an email rejection 2 weeks later. Didn't realize it was something to brag about until today!
Posted by: juniorminted | Aug 16, 2012 10:18:56 PM
Posted by: Streit | Aug 17, 2012 4:56:06 AM
What does a "ding" mean? Confirmation of receipt? Rejection? Offer?
Posted by: anoff | Aug 17, 2012 1:05:14 PM
A ding is a rejection
Posted by: anon | Aug 17, 2012 1:21:45 PM
Rejections today from Chicago, Georgia, UCDavis, and Penn.
Posted by: Angster since 8/2 | Aug 17, 2012 2:10:02 PM
So a ding from Yale today. 4 days after submission.
Posted by: anoff | Aug 17, 2012 2:19:54 PM
Baylor ding (submitted Tuesday).
Posted by: bailer | Aug 17, 2012 4:14:07 PM
Question: Is it a bad idea to submit on a Friday?
Posted by: Friday | Aug 17, 2012 5:43:05 PM
Ugh. Silence. I don't know about the Friday question, but would be interested in others' thoughts.
Posted by: former optimist | Aug 17, 2012 7:46:22 PM
In the past, I've scored at least one acceptance within a few days of submitting. This year, I've also heard absolutely zilch (submitted 8/9). On the positive side, I've received far fewer rejections than I typically receive after a week. Not sure what to make of all this, although I told myself before this cycle started that I would be willing to re-submit in spring, after the boards change. I had planned to put my piece on SSRN pretty soon, though -- any thoughts on whether putting it up in September (but re-submitting in spring) would make the piece look stale?
Posted by: also formerly optimistic | Aug 17, 2012 8:21:22 PM
Yeah--what's the deal? I submitted 8/12 and have only received rejections from perennial early naysayers Michigan and Baylor. I don't think I've ever gone this long without an offer. Is it that we've entered a new phase in article saturation? Or is it that many schools are starting later in August this year?
Posted by: je ne sais pas | Aug 17, 2012 8:41:36 PM
I received a T40 offer today. My sense is that more than half of the law reviews are not reviewing yet. To "also formerly optimistic" and "je ne sais pas," it is too early to give up-- if anything, expand your submission list right now. I did last week, and it helped. I submitted to 50 law reviews on July 31, then about 15 more. Overall, 12 or so show receipt, 4 rejections and 3 offers, two from low-level outlets. Work from the bottom up, and good luck.
Posted by: Prof15 | Aug 17, 2012 10:37:13 PM
In past August cycles, I never saw movement until after 8/20. That's when rejections and acceptances piled up.
Posted by: ExpressO Drinker | Aug 18, 2012 12:04:50 AM
Submitted 8/15, dings from Mich, Baylor, Pepp. I swear they are automated rejection systems set on a timer...
Posted by: anon | Aug 19, 2012 4:10:13 PM
Rejections from Michigan, Baylor & Virginia. Offer from Tier3 today.
Posted by: submitted 8/15 | Aug 19, 2012 4:14:08 PM
I too have gotten a super quick rejection from Baylor nearly every cycle, spring and fall (this time around, it came four days after submission, i.e., today).
Posted by: former optimist | Aug 19, 2012 4:19:00 PM
Posted by: ExpressO Drinker | Aug 19, 2012 4:37:20 PM
No word all weekend--no acceptances, no rejections, no acknowledgments of receipt on ExpressO. At least there was a cool N.Y. Times article yesterday about the psychology of waiting.
Posted by: anon | Aug 19, 2012 5:05:18 PM
8/13 submission. Rejections from Michigan and Baylor, but silence otherwise.
Posted by: NewAnonProf | Aug 19, 2012 5:06:25 PM
Virginia and Cornell rejections this afternoon. Thanks for the article! Now I just need to figure out how to occupy my waiting time other than by writing additional articles that will meet the same fate...somehow, that doesn't seem to make my own wait pass more quickly.
Posted by: former optimist | Aug 19, 2012 5:27:28 PM
Nothing here either.....
Posted by: anonanother | Aug 19, 2012 5:34:20 PM
Virginia, fordham dings.
Posted by: Streit | Aug 19, 2012 5:37:58 PM
I also now have Baylor/Virginia as well as Michigan dings. Not one offer - longest it's ever taken since I've had a tenure-track job.
Posted by: yetanotherprof | Aug 19, 2012 6:06:33 PM
Sent out 8/17, Baylor ding today. I just realized how to improve the paper substantially--but I've got to prepare for class.
Posted by: AnonProf44 | Aug 19, 2012 7:16:30 PM
Dings from Fordham and Perpperdine today (Sunday). One is a Jersuit school, the other a "Christian" school. Why are the working on Sunday??
Posted by: penitent | Aug 19, 2012 7:58:40 PM
Those of you with dings from Fordham: had they acknowledged receipt of your article on expresso?
Posted by: anonanother | Aug 19, 2012 8:07:22 PM
Fordham both acknowledged and rejected my submission today. I am sure it received careful consideration.
Posted by: fordham dinged | Aug 19, 2012 8:29:20 PM
For those with Virginia dings, did they acknowledge receipt on Expresso prior to the ding?
Posted by: Anon | Aug 20, 2012 9:39:21 AM
No, Virginia dinged me without acknowledging receipt. Hey, why waste time reading?
Posted by: anon | Aug 20, 2012 10:12:41 AM
Got a call from an editor at a fourth-tier asking about the acceptance they purportedly sent yesterday. Never got the e-mail! Is that why it's been so quiet -- is expresso the problem?
Posted by: anon | Aug 20, 2012 10:41:11 AM
Ding from Virginia. The e-mail says: "Thank you again for submitting your article to us." I am wondering why they used the word "again," as I have not been thanked before... Maybe this message refers to previous articles that were also rejected without being read.
Posted by: anoff | Aug 20, 2012 1:20:01 PM
Don't let receipt make you anxious. I have received offers in the past from journals that did not acknowledge.
Posted by: ExpressO Drinker | Aug 20, 2012 1:22:52 PM
Everyone complaining that their article "wasn't read" needs to calm down. For one thing, it just sounds like very sad, sour grapes. For another thing, you have no way of knowing that -- both the law review I worked on and the law review at the school at which I teach read everything that comes in, and I have no reason to think that most of the other top law reviews do anything differently. Let's be honest: For the vast majority of all articles written, any 3L can pick it up and determine within about 15 minutes that it isn't really, really good. Since the top 20 or so law reviews can afford to accept only really, really good articles, it follows that they can reject the vast majority of what comes in pretty quickly. It doesn't mean that they didn't give it a fair look.
Posted by: Law Prof | Aug 20, 2012 1:41:59 PM
Posted by: Streit | Aug 20, 2012 1:52:05 PM
Is this accurate? "For the vast majority of all articles written, any 3L can pick it up and determine within about 15 minutes that it isn't really, really good."
By any meaningful measure of "really, really good," I'm skeptical. I read more than a few articles published outside of "top 20 or so law reviews" that are "really, really good" and a lot of articles in top 20 law reviews that aren't. A good three quarters of the articles I read rehash arguments that I have seen many times before, adding nothing substantively new, and doing so in apparent ignorance of earlier iterations of the same points. Many of these have been published in "top 20 or so law reviews." What about such an article makes it "really, really good"? Quality of the prose doesn't count.
Posted by: another law prof | Aug 20, 2012 2:17:09 PM
Says Law Prof: "both the law review I worked on and the law review at the school at which I teach read everything that comes in" and "the vast majority of all articles written, any 3L can pick it up and determine within about 15 minutes that it isn't really, really good"
Come on, really? They *read* several thousand submissions? I rather doubt that. Proxies matter in this process as much if not more than substance. To the extent that proxies get in the way of careful review of substance, they benefit some and disadvantage others. Submission volume might make reliance on proxies excusable, even unavoidable. But lets not pretend that the process is driven by careful, individualized assessment of merit by qualified reviewers.
Posted by: Anono | Aug 20, 2012 2:23:01 PM
You realize you are telling people to calm down on a thread that is specifically designed for angsting, right?
Posted by: Barrel | Aug 20, 2012 2:27:26 PM
I carefully read every single rejection I receive. Every last one.
Posted by: anonanother | Aug 20, 2012 3:10:27 PM
Law Prof: it takes peer reviewed journals months to decide if a paper is sufficiently good. This is so in all disciplines. How likely is it that "any 3L can pick it up and determine within about 15 minutes that it isn't really, really good"? Research shows that most student editors use proxies, such as authors' affiliations, education, previous publications, etc., rather than seriously and carefully reading every submission. I assume those with the right CV think the process is flawless.
Posted by: anoff | Aug 20, 2012 3:26:42 PM
Submitted 8/15 to T100, rejected 8/16 by Michigan, rejected over the weekend by Baylor, woke up this morning to find rejections from Yale and Pepperdine.
Posted by: Bob Loblaw | Aug 20, 2012 3:33:13 PM
Anyone think it's worth telling the T100s I have an offer from a fourth-tier journal and asking for an expedite?
Posted by: anon | Aug 20, 2012 3:48:50 PM
I know people have strong feelings to the contrary, but my own belief is to expedite all the way up, no matter the underlying offer. Take it with a proverbial salt grain, but I've gotten very high-ranking offers off of very low-ranking expedites. Good luck!
Posted by: anon | Aug 20, 2012 5:24:43 PM
anon 3:48 - In a previous cycle, I expedited almost all the way up (not top 30) based on an offer from a tier3/tier4 offer and got a top 50 offer. Then I used that top 50 to expedite to the higher ranked journals but did not get an offer. This year, I'm doing the same thing--expediting to all but the top 30 using a tier 3/4 offer. I'll let you know how it goes. Good luck!
Posted by: submitted 8/15 | Aug 20, 2012 6:46:56 PM
Could those who list acceptances and rejections make an effort to mention when they submitted their articles?
Posted by: anon | Aug 20, 2012 6:47:49 PM
Does anyone have reason to believe that the international journals are reading/considering submissions? I've never published in a secondary journal and don't know whether they tend to read earlier/later.
Posted by: Submitted 8/2 | Aug 20, 2012 7:23:43 PM
Anon 3:48, I believe that one you have an offer, you should expedite all the way to the top. While top schools will not be impressed by a T4 offer, if you have any chance at the top schools, your T4 offer will shake loose something higher up. The goal is to keep your piece in play long enough to give them a chance to actually read it.
Posted by: AnonProf44 | Aug 20, 2012 11:48:39 PM
Doing my part to keep the angst alive. I submitted seven days ago. Four rejections so far. My acknowledgment-of-receipt rate has slowed considerably over the past few days.
Posted by: former optimist | Aug 21, 2012 11:20:22 AM
Submitted 8/15. Rejections from Baylor and Michigan, silence otherwise.
Posted by: CBR | Aug 21, 2012 11:36:55 AM
Can we turn these frowns upside down? For starters, 14 of the T20 have NOT rejected my article! And I submitted on Aug. 8. Given that some of these journals have issued rejections to others, this MUST mean that my article is progressing smoothly through the process. In a few days, I'm sure I'll have to decide between accepting Harvard, Yale, or Columbia's offers. What a dilemma!
Posted by: anon-y-mouse | Aug 21, 2012 11:44:20 AM
anon-y-mous, can you give me one the offers you turn down? I'm not picky, I would take either one of your leftovers.
Posted by: CBR | Aug 21, 2012 11:51:33 AM
anon-y-mous, can you give me one the offers you turn down? I'm not picky, I would take either one of your leftovers.
Posted by: CBR | Aug 21, 2012 11:51:38 AM
And I accidentally posted twice--I guess I'm trying to get BOTH of your leftovers.
Posted by: CBR | Aug 21, 2012 11:52:22 AM
With apologies for the ignorance (this is my first time around), to what rankings do the tiers correlate? i.e. Does T4 correlate to schools 75-100? 100-150? Thanks!
Posted by: anon | Aug 21, 2012 11:58:03 AM
Absolutely. Once they read my article, the editors will hang on every word I say. You've got my recommendation, which for the T20, will, in two or three days, be gold.
Posted by: anon-y-mouse | Aug 21, 2012 11:59:58 AM
I think you've converted me...I was thinking of changing my name anyway. Former optimist no more.
-Formerly former optimist
Posted by: optimized | Aug 21, 2012 12:16:30 PM
Does anyone know if Arizona and Illinois are done for the year, or whether they'll start accepting submissions again later in the fall? (ExpressO's not clear about this).
Posted by: anon | Aug 21, 2012 1:35:05 PM
I have had luck in the past emailing journals that were "closed" on ExpressO. One top 30 journal had thought it was full, then had a last-minute opening, and they took my piece without ever going "open" on ExpressO. So it might be worth contacting Arizona and Illinois by email.
Posted by: CBR | Aug 21, 2012 1:43:24 PM
Anon 11:58 -- Fourth tier usually means the flagship law reviews of the law schools that fall into the 'unranked' category of the US News and World Report rankings, which the mag used call fourth tier schools. No offense to anyone--that's where I teach, in any event.
Posted by: anon | Aug 21, 2012 2:27:35 PM
I've gotten a response from a T50 (but not T30) review confirming that they will complete an expedited review by my deadline (I gave them a solid week). Is that a good sign, or just common courtesy? Given that the editors can't even be bothered to click the 'received' button on Expresso, I am hoping it's the former...
Posted by: Cautiously optimistic | Aug 21, 2012 2:29:55 PM
Submitted from 8/8-8/12 and I have dings from Michigan, Harvard, Yale and Cornell. Submitted to top 50.
Posted by: AnonAnon | Aug 21, 2012 2:34:24 PM
Cautiously optimistic: I would regard it as an opportunity to make some new friends (and benefactors)!
Posted by: optimized | Aug 21, 2012 2:59:38 PM
updating--have now submitted to 35 top 100 journals, mostly in the 50-100 range (e.g. Suffolk, San Diego, Rutgers, Buffalo) a few top 50 (e.g. Colorado, Emory) and a few specialty journals. No responses yet. I sent to most on 8/8, a 2nd batch 8/10, and a few more a couple of days ago. 10 or so of the 32 have acknowledged receipt. Am starting to hope for some rejections just to see some action...
Posted by: ericblair | Aug 21, 2012 3:29:17 PM
sorry, I guess Suffolk is T4...well, still eager to hear from them! sub in Oregon as another representative T50-100 journal I submitted to but haven't heard from yet.
Posted by: ericblair | Aug 21, 2012 3:33:20 PM
Mercer ding. I think they have filled their volume, as they are "on hold" for submissions at the moment.
Posted by: 8/15 submitter | Aug 21, 2012 3:56:09 PM
Notre Dame and Lewis & Clark also on hold. Washington U full.
Posted by: anoff | Aug 21, 2012 4:14:08 PM
William & Mary ding. That hurt, but I did what I do in that situation -- I immediately withdraw the manuscript from them via Expresso. It feels like I'm rejecting their rejection.
Posted by: 8/15 submitter | Aug 21, 2012 5:05:58 PM
8/15 submitter, an optimizing approach to the situation! I like it!
Posted by: optimizer | Aug 21, 2012 6:06:06 PM
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