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Saturday, February 11, 2012

VAPs and Fellowships: Open Thread, 2011-2012

As requested, here is this year's open thread in which comments can be shared regarding news of appointments to VAPs or similar fellowships (for example, the Climenko and Bigelow).  (Here is last year's thread.)

Update: We have an aggregator! Below is the spreadsheet, which you can view and download here.

Additionally, this link will always take you to the last page of comments for this thread.

From the aggregator:

The column titles should be self-explanatory. Most columns are populated by dates, each of which may have a descriptor next to it indicating (method of notification) AND/OR [slots filled/total slots].

Dates correspond to the posting date or the date I (VAP Aggregator) received an email directly.

Reports on some programs leave outstanding questions based on the information provided. I have highlighted those in yellow in the hopes folks will provide additional info.  (Committees, you are especially encouraged to correct me if I make a mistake!)

Some programs are not running this year (either via their webpage and/or reports). I have marked those rows in gray, but preserved them to help make the spreadsheet reusable next year.

Submit any questions/comments/corrections to vapaggregator (at) gmail (dot) com.

Posted by Sarah Lawsky on February 11, 2012 at 10:57 AM in Getting a Job on the Law Teaching Market | Permalink

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environmental VAP at south carolina: http://www.thefacultylounge.org/2012/03/south-carolina-seeks-environmental-law-visitor.html

Posted by: junior mint | Mar 2, 2012 8:50:16 PM

...and visitors needed at u of OK (contracts, torts, energy/natural resources, upper-level business, and international law).
http://www.thefacultylounge.org/2012/03/oklahoma-seeks-visitors.html

Posted by: junior mint | Mar 5, 2012 8:12:35 PM

Has anyone been asked for a reference from someone at current employer? How do you handle if your employer doesn't know you're on the market?

Posted by: fit of pique | Mar 7, 2012 7:31:37 PM

From the Faculty Lounge:

Tulane Law School is currently accepting applications for a two-year position of visiting assistant professor. The position is being supported by the Murphy Institute at Tulane, an interdisciplinary unit specializing in political economy and ethics that draws faculty from the economics, philosophy, history, and political science departments. The position is designed for scholars focusing on regulation of economic activity very broadly construed (including, for example, research with a methodical or analytical focus relevant to scholars of regulation). It is also designed for individuals who plan to apply for tenure-track law school positions during the second year of the professorship. The law school will provide significant informal support for such. The person selected for the position will be expected to participate in scholarly activities at the law school and at the Murphy Institute, including faculty workshops, and will be expected to teach a law school course or seminar in three of the four semesters of the professorship (presumably the last three semesters). The annual salary for the position is $65,000 plus eligibility for benefits. To apply, please send a CV identifying at least three references, a law school transcript, electronic copies of any scholarship completed or in-progress, and a letter explaining your teaching interests and your research agenda to [email protected] If you have any questions, please contact Adam Feibelman at that same email address. The law school aims to fill this position by the end of April 2012.

Posted by: VAPapp | Mar 8, 2012 12:49:25 PM

Would people be interested in putting together a spreadsheet that gathers VAP/fellowship hiring results like prawfsblawg is currently doing for tenure-track placement (at http://prawfsblawg.blogs.com/prawfsblawg/2012/02/entry-level-hiring-the-2012-report.html)? Considering that VAP/fellowship placement is now such a common--and in many cases necessary--stepping stone into tenure-track positions, this seems like a reasonable extension of prawfs' data collection efforts.

Posted by: anon | Mar 10, 2012 3:00:59 PM

Isn't it easier to just look at the websites of the schools that have VAPs in September and see the bios of the fellows/VAPs? That would be more accurate, at any rate.

Posted by: anon | Mar 10, 2012 4:06:39 PM

anon @ 3:00:

I would be willing to do so (including coordinating it), provided the prawfs feel it is an appropriate activity. I am especially interested in whether members of VAP/fellow hiring committees would be willing to allow this, given that the VAP hiring season is so far spread out that some data would likely become available before decisions are made at other schools....

Posted by: VAP Aggregator | Mar 10, 2012 4:07:33 PM

To anon at 4:06: That would be more accurate, but also far more time-consuming. A few years ago it wouldn't be a real problem because fellowships/VAP programs were quite few, but given the rapid proliferation in recent years, it now takes much more time to go through all the programs. This is basically the same argument as one could make for prawfs' data collection on tenure-track hiring. In that area, too, it's more accurate to simply check the webpages of law schools in September, but it would be incredibly tedious to do so thoroughly.

To VAP Aggregator: Thanks for your interest in this (and, of course, for managing the spreadsheet on this thread). One solution to the spread-out nature of VAP hiring would simply to start data-collection later in the academic year, for example in mid-April. By then the great majority of places will have finished hiring.

Posted by: anon at 3:00 pm | Mar 10, 2012 5:37:16 PM

I think the spreadsheet would be extremely helpful for future years' applicants, and at least somewhat helpful for this year's. We might be more likely to run into the issue of VAPs/fellows who haven't yet given notice at their current jobs, but as we approach the starting point of the various programs (June/July for some), that problem will go away.

Meanwhile, any idea why the thread is fairly quiet so far this month? Have people stopped reporting interviews/rejections/offers?

Posted by: sugar huddle | Mar 10, 2012 11:17:57 PM

Just received a rejection email from the Columbia Academic Fellows program.

Posted by: Anon | Mar 11, 2012 2:38:35 PM

Has there been any movement on the Thomas Jefferson VAP program?

Posted by: anon | Mar 12, 2012 11:26:59 AM

anon have you had an interview yet with Thomas Jefferson?

Posted by: Anonduo | Mar 12, 2012 1:04:00 PM

As to why this thread is quiet, I think we have a VERY small number of people on this thread compared to the pool of applicants, but that's just my guess.

Posted by: anon | Mar 12, 2012 1:56:02 PM

I think you're right, though I would sure love some statistics on how big that pool actually is.

I guess you're saying my repeatedly refreshing this thread is not going to win me a VAP. Too bad, because I'm very diligent about it.

Posted by: sugar huddle | Mar 12, 2012 3:43:11 PM

There are at least 80 candidates in this year's pool (based on what I've heard from people in charge of a top VAP program).

Posted by: _anon_ | Mar 12, 2012 6:56:06 PM

It has to be way more than 80--if you simply add up the available slots for, say, the Climenko, Bigelow, Columbia AIL and AF programs, NYU Lawyering, Stanford, UPenn, Duke, Cornell, Northwestern, and GT, that would yield 30-35 placements already, and we haven't even gotten out of the T14. Throw in the myriad of slots at slightly lower-ranked places, if there were only 80 applicants or so, then the great majority of them would get something from a top 30 or 40 school, and almost everyone would get at least one offer from somewhere decent. That's... clearly not the case, so I'm guessing the applicant pool is at least twice as large, probably several times as large. 80 is most likely the number of people who applied to one particular VAP program (although probably not one of the more populous programs such as the Climenko or Bigelow), but only a fraction of the total pool.

Posted by: anon | Mar 12, 2012 9:23:25 PM

Anon @6:56: thanks!

Anon @9:23: what's your estimate? Do you know of the total applicant pool for any one fellowship or VAP?

According to last year's PrawfsBlawg data, at least 87 new TT hires had a fellowship/VAP, and we know that data to be incomplete. So we're likely dealing with a pool larger than 80, but maybe it divides along lines like a) people who apply only to programs at T14 schools (maybe because if they don't get one, they feel well positioned to go on the market without a fellowship) b) people who apply only to programs that are geographic possibilities; and c) people who apply to every program, because they won't do well on the market without one and because they're flexible as to location and rank.

Posted by: junior mint | Mar 12, 2012 9:56:31 PM

I don't really have anything concrete to estimate by. Just pointing out that, if, as quite a few people have suggested, many (most?) who apply to VAPs end up with no offers at all, and if a T14 VAP placement is extremely hard to land (this seems indisputable), then by simple math the applicant pool is probably at least 120+, if not 160+--there are, by my (crude) count, at least 70-80 VAP slots at top 100 schools. Hence my interpretation of anon @6:56's information to mean that 80 was the number of people who applied to that one particular program. That actually sounds about right for top VAP programs that have app deadlines after Jan. 1 (this excludes the larger programs like the Climenko, Bigelow, Columbia AiL, Stanford Fellows, and NYU Lawyering, which offer perhaps 20 slots total, and probably draw several times that many applicants).

I do agree with the lines that junior mint draws, though.

Posted by: anon | Mar 12, 2012 10:20:02 PM

Actually, the 70-80 estimate counts only general-interest VAPs, if you start counting the area-specific fellowships (environmental law, tax, IP, legal history, law and econ, etc.), then the total number of slots would be over 100, just at T100 schools. If there weren't at least 150 applicants in the overall pool, I can't imagine why this process seems so difficult.

Posted by: anon | Mar 12, 2012 10:28:04 PM

I wonder to what degree:

1) folks receiving offers are reluctant to post for concern it will make committees uncomfortable with them doing so; and

2) committees are reluctant to post for concern if the candidate does not accept, the next candidate to whom they offer it will think they are "second-choice" and be less likely to accept.

Posted by: anon | Mar 12, 2012 11:38:11 PM

I wonder if we're reaching the point of diminishing marginal returns on information.

Say I got rejected by the Bigelow (which I was). I could report that. But we know others have been rejected already, so what does my info add? That they are still considering people? But if you haven't heard, I think it's fair to say you're still under some level of consideration, so you knew that.

Conversely, if I had received and accepted the Bigelow, what does that tell you other than that they are still hiring but there is one less slot? If there are three others open (hypothetically; I have no idea), do you really care? If only one remains, how would you know that?

In short, at this stage, there's very little info to be gathered other than that programs are full. In fact, up-to-date info on that would be very helpful. Most seem to be in the throes of making decisions. So, chairs, please post when your programs are full. Thank you.

Posted by: Quite frankly... | Mar 12, 2012 11:50:36 PM

Quite Frankly - I respectfully disagree. I think there can be valuable information in knowing additional info, especially if it's being tracked. While the marginally gain of knowing about one more slot might be small, the collective gain once we know all the slots are (likely) filled is substantial - particularly for folks in the position of having received an offer with a decision deadline.

Also, I'm not entirely sure that many committees read this thread, and I highly doubt all (or even most) do.

Posted by: anon | Mar 13, 2012 11:50:16 AM

I agree with anon at 11:50 and find the information helpful. I've had a couple of interviews without offers or rejections and a couple of applications without confirmation of receipt, so any status updates at all relating to those schools is meaningful to me.

When I was applying to law school my mail came to my office, and I was sitting temporarily on a different floor from my desk. I asked a girl who sat near me to tell me when the mail came. She replied "it doesn't matter; it will still say the same thing if you read it an hour later." We both got into one of HYS, but I will probably never understand that girl and she will never understand me. "Quite frankly" is in her camp, I think.

Posted by: fit of pique | Mar 13, 2012 12:38:53 PM

Penn Sharswood has finished interviewing.

Posted by: anon | Mar 13, 2012 6:12:10 PM

anon @ 6:12: I updated the spreadsheet to reflect interviews, should we infer from your comment that Penn Sharswood has extended offers that have been accepted?

(Just want to clarify, because that is what I understand "finished interviewing" to mean.)

Posted by: VAP Aggregator | Mar 13, 2012 6:54:26 PM

VAP Aggregator: Don't know for sure if offers have been extended. All I've been told is that they have conducted interviews and don't anticipate scheduling any further interviews.

Posted by: anon | Mar 13, 2012 7:32:38 PM

anon - was this in response to an inquiry, or a general update from them?

Posted by: anon | Mar 13, 2012 7:46:34 PM

email rejections from Wake (not hiring) and Brooklyn

Posted by: anon | Mar 14, 2012 12:26:21 PM

odd ... I didn't get anything from Wake

Posted by: _anon_ | Mar 14, 2012 2:37:53 PM

_anon_: sorry, I should have clarified - it was in response to an inquiry.

(I never got an original confirmation of receipt from them so I followed up.)

~ anon @ 12:26

Posted by: anon | Mar 14, 2012 2:54:46 PM

anon@12:26 - was the Brooklyn rejection also in response to an inquiry?

Posted by: anon | Mar 14, 2012 4:04:11 PM

anon @ 4:04 - yes.

Posted by: anon@12:26 | Mar 14, 2012 4:15:28 PM

anyone out there accepted offers at either GW or Brooklyn?

Posted by: Anon | Mar 14, 2012 6:28:04 PM

Was the Columbia Academic Fellows rejection sent as response to an inquiry or general update?

Posted by: anonio | Mar 14, 2012 9:23:53 PM

It occurs to me that several schools may be on spring break this week, perhaps explaining in part why things are moving a little slow at some places....

Posted by: anonymizer | Mar 14, 2012 11:34:01 PM

aha! confirmed that nyu, harvard, & bu are all on spring break.

Posted by: pippi | Mar 15, 2012 10:27:51 AM

same rejection from penn as above (in response to an inquiry)

Posted by: anon | Mar 15, 2012 12:25:36 PM

Columbia Academic Fellows were civilized and emailed rejection without update request.

Posted by: Anon | Mar 15, 2012 1:24:53 PM

email rejection from hofstra (not in response to inquiry)-- no teaching needs in my specialty.

Posted by: little lucy | Mar 16, 2012 10:28:05 AM

email rejection from chicago (in response to inquiry) - new candidate for "nicest rejection letter i've ever received"

Posted by: anon | Mar 19, 2012 1:08:49 PM

i hear penn state has started making offers

Posted by: anon | Mar 19, 2012 1:17:37 PM

anyone know if GW and/or Brooklyn are finished hiring?

Posted by: Anon | Mar 19, 2012 1:27:19 PM

Still no rejection from Columbia Academic Fellows program here.

Posted by: Anon | Mar 19, 2012 1:30:02 PM

+1 no rejection from Columbia, i don't think GW is "finished" but may be waiting to hear re: extended offers on their remaining slots, no useful info re: brooklyn (other than that they don't want me! ;))

Posted by: anon | Mar 19, 2012 1:35:04 PM

I haven't heard from Brooklyn since acknowledgement of receipt of materials-- so no rejection and no interview. I don't know if that data is remotely helpful to anyone, but there it is.

Posted by: junior mint | Mar 19, 2012 1:58:12 PM

Which fellowship programs and VAPs are known to interview? I know the Climenko and NYU do, and I believe the Bigelow does. What about Columbia, Penn State, BU, ASU, WashU, Brooklyn?

Posted by: anonymous | Mar 19, 2012 1:59:59 PM

penn state does (at least) phone interviews, i don't know about any of the others on your list

Posted by: anon | Mar 19, 2012 2:03:16 PM

Columbia Academic Fellows did an in person interview and Brooklyn did a telephone interview.

Posted by: Anon | Mar 19, 2012 2:30:24 PM

What about Columbia Associates in Law? And what's up with them charging an application fee?

Posted by: anon | Mar 19, 2012 6:19:37 PM

For Columbia Associates-in-Law (and Temple's Fellows Program, for that matter) I think the application fee relates to the fact the program primarily is designed as a graduate (LLM) degree program, hence the application fee, which I imagine the University requires.

(This admittedly is, however, pure speculation.)

Posted by: anon | Mar 19, 2012 8:06:21 PM

harvard (climenko) rejection (in response to inquiry) - wording suggests they finished hiring, but based on others' experience with this thread, that doesn't seem to be a good guide...

Posted by: anon | Mar 19, 2012 10:27:47 PM

anon at 10:27, thanks for the update. had you interviewed for the climenko?

Posted by: hlsd | Mar 19, 2012 11:18:23 PM

hlsd: no, and i was a (VERY) late applicant, for whatever that's worth in your evaluation process.

Posted by: anon @ 10:27 | Mar 19, 2012 11:37:09 PM

For those who advised reaching out to schools with updated news of publications - do you wait until you've accepted an offer or can you update with outstanding offers? And should I submit an updated CV with the new publications info and/or put the publications info in a cover email? Thank you -

Posted by: Can't wait for this to end | Mar 20, 2012 6:55:35 AM

Thanks for the info. I'm sure there's no hope for those of us who did interview either so not sure why I'm torturing myself!

Posted by: hlsd | Mar 20, 2012 9:24:27 AM

CWFTTE (neither can I), I would put it in the cover email for sure, so no one is playing guess-the-change with your CV. And I would update with an email only (or phone call) if you haven't accepted the offer, because it doesn't make sense to list something on your CV that isn't a done deal/could change. But that's just one girl's opinion.

Posted by: pippi | Mar 20, 2012 9:27:05 AM

On last year's thread, people kept asking about BU and then eventually rejections came-- no one reported interviews. The list of visiting faculty doesn't seem to reflect a lot of tradtional entry-level candidates either (http://www.bu.edu/law/faculty/profiles/visiting.shtml)-- 2 are clinical, 1 is health law, a few are lateral, and the rest have been "visiting" for many years. Vitali may be the exception.

Anyone have any scoop on how the selection process works-- have you heard of anyone getting an interview, or is it more of an inside track situation?

Posted by: bostonian | Mar 20, 2012 11:40:41 AM

Anyone know whether Chicago-Kent and GW are still interviewing?

Posted by: anon | Mar 20, 2012 12:20:44 PM

Cornell has rejected at least some applicants. Does anyone know when the freedman fellowship program at Temple typically makes decisions?

Posted by: anon | Mar 20, 2012 3:10:19 PM

anyone heard from BU, health or otherwise?

Posted by: VAPapp | Mar 21, 2012 1:40:26 PM

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