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Wednesday, April 23, 2008

How much is the job of a foreigner worth?

In my last post, I asked a basic policy question and mostly got denial in response. So I’ll try again, but in a kinder and gentler way.

Here is the question: How much is the job – or, more generally, the economic well-being – of a non-citizen worth?

The issue is plausibly raised by the debate over free trade. It is the widespread consensus of economists that eliminating barriers on goods and services delivered to the United States benefits the citizens of under-developed countries where those goods and services are manufactured or performed. Outsourcing jobs to India seems to be very good for India’s workers.

But free trade in goods and services might have some adverse effects on some Americans. Paul Krugman, for instance, argues that trade increases inequality between skilled and unskilled American workers. (See paper). The magnitude and causes of these effects are hotly disputed (by, among others, Lawrence Katz) and difficult to verify, because the data is apparently crude. But let’s assume some sort of distributively undesirable effect.

How should U.S. policymakers balance these effects? Should the welfare of non-citizens count at all? Or should we let Indians remain impoverished to prevent, say, a 15% drop in unskilled wages in the United States? The question is tellingly asked by "The Delmar Dog Butler: Is Outsourcing Killing America?", a must-see DVD produced by James Walsh, a University of Michigan Business School Professor. In the DVD, Walsh follows the career of Steve Relles, an engineer who is laid off by GE when his job is outsourced to engineers in India. Relles creates a business picking up the dog poop of neighbors’ pooches, and his salary drops from 50k to roughly 15k. Only his wife’s job allows the Relles family to pay their mortgage.

Walsh then travels to India to see how the Indians engineers are affected by out-sourcing. He interviews a young man whose life is transformed by his work at GE, despite what Americans would regard as an extremely low (15k) salary. Suddenly, the young Indian engineer can afford a moped, an apartment, and a marriage.

Walsh asks – and admirably does not attempt to answer – the question I ask here: How should policymakers balance these costs and benefits?

There are two basic approaches to this question. One is to grapple with it. The other is to deny that it exists. The latter approach involves the adamant denial that the citizens of under-developed countries are hurt by tariff barriers. On this account, there is no trade-off: Despite what virtually every academic economist says, everyone’s made worse off by globalization. This is largely the sort of response I received when I asked how Iraqi and U.S. lives ought to be traded off against each other. Several people simply said that the withdrawal of U.S. troops could not possibly lead to increased Iraqi casualties. It's all win-win, so why trouble oneself with unpleasant thoughts?

If you have an activists’ faith that your preferred policies cannot possibly hurt non-citizens, then, of course, there is no need to confront my question. I regard such zeal as a form of denial, although I envy such religious certitude. But for those of you with less faith and more doubt, I repeat my question: Suppose that it IS the case that trade is good for Indians but hurts some Americans? Suppose that there is a non-trivial plan that MoveOn.org is wrong about the effects of quick U.S. withdrawal – that the Iraqi casualty rate WILL spike? Just suspend your belief for a second: Assume that trade-offs of the sort I describe, if not certain, are at least plausible. How would you make them?

Would you, for instance, tolerate layoffs in the U.S. to prevent destitution – i.e., poverty unimaginable to any, even unemployed, American – in India? What's the right ratio between foreign and U.S. welfare?

Posted by Rick Hills on April 23, 2008 at 08:47 AM in Current Affairs | Permalink

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Comments

Americans and foreigners should count equally, to the extent that we're counting anything at all. Alex Tabarrok dealt with this question in a way that I haven't seen any convincing replies to:


I would argue, however, that economists are too quick to take the nation as the relevant moral community. It is quite possible, for example, for Peter to benefit from trade but for Peter's city to be harmed, for Peter's state to benefit but for his region to be harmed, for his country to benefit but for his continent to be harmed. Why should we cut the cake in one way, excluding some from the moral community, but not in another? Indeed, geography is not the only way we can define the moral community. Why not ask whether English speakers benefit from free trade or Christians or left handed people? Each of these is just as valid as asking whether the collection of people called the nation benefit from free trade.

I understand individual rights and I understand counting everyone equally but I see less value in counting some in and some out based on arbitrary characteristics like which side of the border the actors fall on.

Posted by: James Grimmelmann | Apr 23, 2008 9:52:45 AM

As a philosophical question, few people would argue with Tabarrok.

But the way you frame it, you are just asking why specific people should not or do not make sacrifices for the sake of others - or impose sacrifices on others for a perceived greater good.

I think you should answer this question by telling us why you don't send all of your salary not expended on absolute essentials to starving people somewhere in the world. Or why you don't send all the money you spend on frivolous things for your wife or girlfriend or children. Or why you are not in Iraq right now - or some other country where you may be able to improve two lives for your one.

Posted by: ivory | Apr 24, 2008 12:23:18 AM

Ivory remarks:

“I think you should answer this question by telling us why you don't
send all of your salary not expended on absolute essentials to starving
people somewhere in the world. Or why you don't send all the money you
spend on frivolous things for your wife or girlfriend or children. Or
why you are not in Iraq right now - or some other country where you may
be able to improve two lives for your one.”

To which I respond:

Perhaps it is appropriate to think of a nation’s regulatory power – to be specific, its power to use customs officials to bar one person from buying goods and services from another person -- as equivalent to the private property of an individual. On this analogy, the people of the United States “own” their power to exclude foreign goods, services, and migrants just as an individual owns their land and income: The nation can be as selfish with that power as an individual can be with their private property.

So, for instance, if the citizens of the United States collectively do not want to “spend” their regulatory power to “help” the citizens of Mali by permitting the latter to sell their textiles to buyers in the United States, even if this decision will save a handful of jobs at the expense of starvation, then such a decision is no different from an individual's decision not to give to charity.

But, against this view of regulatory power as property, ask yourself the following two questions:

(1) Do you really believe that the nation collectively “owns” the buying power of its individual citizens in the same way that an individual owns their wallet? That the incomes of We the People are the property of Congress to be "spent" as the Congress pleases?

(2) Do you really believe that a nation acting pursuant to law is entitled to behave as selfishly as an individual acting with their property?

Against an affirmative answer to both questions, consider the following:

(1) My personal property is subject to a network of laws – taxation, laws regulating wages and hours, laws on nuisance, tort, and contract – that curb my selfishness. Much of my property – almost half in New York State -- is redistributed pursuant to state, federal and local income taxes. The remainder is spent only at stores that must obey wages and hours laws, unionization laws, etc. If I am entitled to behave selfishly with the remainder of my property by, say, refusing to give to charity, it is only because there is a backdrop of laws in place to insure that much of that property is used in a public spirit.

What backdrop of laws insures that the selfishness of the United States government’s power is mitigated to consider the interests of other nations?

Second, individuals’ income give them a very small share of power: Each person control an infinitesimal fraction of GDP. Likewise, even Bill Gates’ share of property is small compared to the size of the United States’ customs receipts. But the United States government controls an enormous share the nation’s wealth through tariff and other regulations.

Do you really think that the ethical constraints on the government of the United States, acting as our collective agent, are not greater than the ethical constraints on an individual? That a nation like the United States, controlling an enormous share of the world’s purchasing power, can wield that power as an individual wields their wallet? Such a view strikes me as the sort of realpolitick worthy of Metternich or Bismarck or Kissinger – but certainly not consistent with the theories of national responsibility that “progressive” activists have typically espoused.

Posted by: Rick Hills | Apr 24, 2008 8:17:23 AM

"tell[] us why you don't send all of your salary not expended on absolute essentials to starving people somewhere in the world."

Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day . . . .

Posted by: anon | Apr 24, 2008 8:39:46 PM

I'm not sure if we are talking across each other, or if we actually disagree on something. I think your question is fair, and I think we do have ethical obligations as a humans and as a country of humans. But I think those obligations will be met by individuals asking and answering the types of questions I asked you. I have friends and family who forego many luxuries to donate money overseas - and I don't think (for purposes of this post) that there is any reason to distinguish between exporting jobs or donating money. (Though an interesting distinction is that one is truly voluntary and the other may be imposed.) There are so many other questions tied to this that we also cannot address - such as why that Indian engineer can't come here to compete for Mr. Relles' job instead of making Relles a pauper, giving the Indian a moped, and making some CEO and shareholders even wealthier.

You began the post by asking how much the economic well-being of a non-citizen is worth. You then state that "outsourcing jobs to India seems to be very good for India’s workers." And follow that with the statement that "free trade in goods and services might have some adverse effects on some Americans." I responded with that set-up as the baseline.

Therefore the implication to me was that We The People, a collection of individual wallets, so to speak, should collectively "pay" the dollar amount we attach to those non-citizens. Discussions about regulatory powers and collective buying power of the people doesn't seem to change this basic equation because the way you set up the question, exercising those regulatory powers in a non-selfish way equals reducing our citizens' jobs or wages. So it seems fair to ask you, as one of the citizens - and on whose behalf the elected and appointed presumably act, how much of your money the non-citizens are worth.

Yet the way I read your response, you are arguing that you have no ethical obligation to share your remaining wealth because you have already been forced to share so much, but that We The People, in the form of Congress and the President, may have the ethical obligation to take actions that might strip you of (share) your job or remaining wealth.

I don't see why a State's ethical constraints should be any different than an individuals. (In practice they seem to be less.) Both consist of decisions made by individuals weighing ideals against competing values and desires. And asking a citizen about how they want to share their own wealth seems highly relevant to the question of how that individual's representatives should share the collective wealth.

You asked me two questions:
(1) Do you really believe that the nation collectively “owns” the buying power of its individual citizens in the same way that an individual owns their wallet? That the incomes of We the People are the property of Congress to be "spent" as the Congress pleases?

Response: That is two questions. As to the first, I don't know what significance you were attaching to the term "buying power" in this question. Off-hand, I can't see how it is any different than asking whether the nation's wealth is a collective of its individuals' wealth. Yes, I think it is. And I think nations should (though do not) act in the interest of the group (within constitutional limits). As to the second, no. In fact, your apparent suggestion that Congress should take actions that may harm citizens for the good of non-citizens - whether citizens like you want to give up more wealth or not - would seem to answer this second question with a yes.

(2) Do you really believe that a nation acting pursuant to law is entitled to behave as selfishly as an individual acting with their property?

Response: I think I already answered this. Again, the selfish behavior you are referring to is behavior that (according the baseline of this post) will preserve citizens' jobs or wages at the expense of non-citizens - and the decisions will be made by officials elected by the citizens. Do you really believe that you can separate your own desire to keep your wealth at the expense of the less fortunate, from the question of whether the government should take actions that will take it from you. (Please don't start talking about comparative advantage etc., or you will be changing the baseline of this discussion).

I do not think that my attempt to ground this lofty discussion of the "value of a non-citizen" in the actual human decisions that likely control the implementation of an answer can fairly be called realpolitik in its pejorative sense. Practical and ideological are not mutually exclusive.

I guess I probably could have responded to this whole thing by saying that for purposes of answering your question, everyone should assume that it is their job that will be outsourced -- that is where ideology meets the road.

Posted by: Ivory | Apr 24, 2008 10:10:02 PM

The problem with these "comparative worth" queries is that they assume that environmental and labor laws in both countries are constant. In the US, a major rationale for deindustrialization and outsourcing has been the hollowing out of unions and the lower-middle class--decreasing their incomes and consequently their political power.

It is easy to imagine a US working class reduced to a rabble by outsourcing, and Chinese and Indian workers gaining only very marginally, while a global elite takes the lion's share of the surplus gained from the cheaper labor. PErhaps a more equitable way of paying for better living standards in India and China would be taxes on the wealthiest around the world...rather than hurtling toward a totally deregulated world where all workers' wages are driven toward subsistence levels.

Posted by: Skeptic | Apr 27, 2008 6:01:36 PM

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